Axeman Anderson 1959 130M

coaledsweat wrote: ↑

Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 6:03 pm

Don, the video from the ash chamber disturbs me. I have never seen even a gentle glow from the fire from below on mine. It should be sitting over several inches of ash. Can you go through your startup routine again just to clarify?

As H.B. stated above, this was after scraping under the fire with a 3" wide bar and some extremely aggressive hand ashing. We did this to get some stuck on clinkers out and be sure we had a full width fire all the way down on the grate.

Before doing this, the one side of the fire was cold up against the boiler wall. You can see part of a big blocking clinker on one side in the video.

Your right though, normally you don't see that much fire on the bottom.

-Don

It's time to check on the Axeman again. 20 pounds of ash over 8.9 hours run time. Assuming 11.5 pounds per hour feed rate, 102.35 pounds and 21% ash. I think 8.9 hours of run time over the past 2 days is an improvement. It has been cold, windy and snowy here over that time.

Since we are now seeing the actual ash temperature moving up and down, I started studying how the Anthrastat reacts.

I first saw the ash temperature go up over 250 degrees and it just kept ashing. The set point is 140. It would go up over 250 and back down to 150 three times before it stopped ashing. I thought there was something wrong with the Athrastat, so I swapped in the one from the 1991 130M. It did the same thing.

I started to think that maybe both Anthrastats are bad??? Today, just for a sanity check, I repaired the triple aqaustat snap switch, made a 10" long temporary copper well for it and jumpered it in place of the Anthrastat. This setup acts the same as both Anthrastats.

I finally realized that the ashing temperature goes up and down because the grate moves. When the grate is right under the Anthrastat, it reads the highest. It takes time for the Anthrastat to react so it doesn't end the ashing cycle early. It has to accumulate temperature to end the cycle.

So, again, it looks like the Anthrastat is working the way it should.

In other news, I took one of my Harman fire tools to the firebox walls in this thing again. This tool is heavy iron and has a 90* bend in it down near the end. I used it mainly to get the back of the firebox under the fire door. I couldn't get to that part before. Hopefully that's all the scraping it needs.

-Don

I think I can see the reason why. The Anthrastat reacts slowly to even out all those up and down ash temperatures as the grate moves.

The AHS/Eshland, with there digital controls, have moved the ash temperature sender further away from the grate. I'm not sure why they did that but it seems to work well.

-Don

StokerDon wrote: ↑

Fri. Nov. 16, 2018 8:59 pm

I think I can see the reason why. The Anthrastat reacts slowly to even out all those up and down ash temperatures as the grate moves.

The AHS/Eshland, with there digital controls, have moved the ash temperature sender further away from the grate. I'm not sure why they did that but it seems to work well.

-Don

1. I do not see a fluctuation in temp when ashing, the heat is at the bottom of the pot, which is stationary. The only thing coming onto and off the end of the grate is ash, it shouldn’t be hot enough to make a difference. ( but maybe that’s what the hysteresis adjustment is for)

2. My eshland actually came originally with a timer to control the ashing, NO temperature sensing of any kind.

Here is a pic straight from the folks over at AHS they sent me to help with my install. This is a new 260.

If the ash coming off the grate wasn't "hot enough to make a difference" the ashing cycle would never end.

On my 130M, I am just amazed at what a difference the scraping and poking had on the real time ash temperature. Before, it hardly moved. Now, a couple minutes after the ashing cycle begins you can tell by the thermometer when the grate is under the Anthrastat.

-Don

StokerDon wrote: ↑

Sat. Nov. 17, 2018 8:56 am

If the ash coming off the grate wasn't "hot enough to make a difference" the ashing cycle would never end.

On my 130M, I am just amazed at what a difference the scraping and poking had on the real time ash temperature. Before, it hardly moved. Now, a couple minutes after the ashing cycle begins you can tell by the thermometer when the grate is under the Anthrastat.

-Don

Idk man.. I think that’s going to change once it gets back to normal operation.

I don’t think the ash on the grate is that hot normally..

Of coarse it wouldn’t stop ashing, you can clean the ash from the end of the grate back to the pot, once the fire gets back ramped up the bottom of the pot is gonna get hotter and once the grate pulls the fire down the pot, via ashing, the temp will go up, I don’t think it’s the ash on the grate end itself that the probe is measuring, it think it’s whats at the bottom of the pot that it is looking for, you want the coal/ash burnt and done before it goes into the grate..

The scraping and poking was 5 days ago so the operation is not going to get any more normal. The ash being scraped off the bottom of the fire has heat in it and that is what the Anthrastat is measuring to determine when the ashing cycle begins and ends.

-Don

Maybe you see the fluctuations cuz your probe is right next to the pot?

My ashing never stops once it starts, it just shuts off when the fan shuts off.

The Anthrastat measures the radiant heat from the ash, not the fire. If you talk to the people at Axeman Anderson, that is what they will tell you. This is also stated in the manual. I strongly suspect that the AHS people will tell you the same thing.

I have seen, touched, smelled and tasted the ash on the grate, it is hot. When I see the ash temperature go up and I see that the grate has moved further under the sensor, I believe that it is getting hotter.

I think of it this way. Ideally, radiant heat from the fire is blocked from the temperature sensor by steel and water. If the fire is down below this steel and water, it has ashed too much and is releasing heat into the ash pit, not the boiler.

-Don

Maybe my ash temp setting is to low then, I can grab what’s coming off the grate.

More often than not my Coal Gun completes a full ashing cycle before the fan cuts out. But my fan cycles last about 13 minutes.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Sat. Nov. 17, 2018 12:56 pm

More often than not my Coal Gun completes a full ashing cycle before the fan cuts out. But my fan cycles last about 13 minutes.

Interesting!!

My does not, and my fan cycles can be 20 minutes..

I think my probe is a bit closer to the heat than yours is. I'm going ~17 minutes on the fan for the case of 2 zones calling.

Today I finally got around to wiring in the garage thermostat and dump zone.

The thermostat is over by the window on the left. I installed a Honeywell relay next to the timer to run the garage zone pump. Since this boiler come with a Honeywell dual aquastat for the HI LIMIT safety, we just used the other side to activate the relay. The wall thermostat and the aquastat are wired to the T T terminals of the relay. I also re-installed the original Anthrastat. I think it's pretty interesting that the aquastat we had temporarily installed worked fine. .
One thing I noticed while installing the aquastat in place of the Anthrastat is one grate roller was actually under the grate too far. I don't know how long it was like that. It is possible that it was this way from the beginning and could have contributed to our ash problems. We will keep an eye on this. -Don