Help needed. KAA-4

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Wood87.mw » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 7:42 am

Hello all.
I am new here and am looking for some
Help with installing my new Kaa-4 boiler.
I have some confusion as to where I find the low water and the triple aqua stat to install in this side of the boiler?
I’ve found that keystokers manual that came with it and the one online are quite different.
Am I correct and assuming the aqua stat and low water are one in the same?
The instructions say to install the high limit in the bypass loop? The other instructions say 2 highlimits and they look like they are in the low water and aqua stat ports.
If anyone can take any pictures and possibly help me along that would be great. Any advice or any think to keep me moving.
I tried calling keystoker but they are closed even though the website says that are open saturdays.


 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 8:19 am

Welcome to the forum,

If you could post pictures, that would make it a lot easier for us non-Keystoker owners to understand what you area asking.
I can partly answer one of your questions.
Wood87.mw wrote:
Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 7:42 am
Am I correct and assuming the aqua stat and low water are one in the same?
If these are standard Honeywell controls, no. The triple aquastat is the main aquastat. It has a Hi, LO, and DIFF knob in it. The low water cutout is a seperate small aquastat.

I've read that newer Keystokers come with Hydrostat aquastats. These are digital controls and the low water cutout is in the Hydrostat. If this is what you have, be sure to use the correct "electrowell" or the low water cutout function might not work.

It's a shame you couldn't get Keystoker on the phone. They could answer all of your questions.

Is this a new purchase, or did you buy it used?

-Don

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 10:12 am

Welcome... On my 2015 kaa-4, Keystoker recommended that the triple aquastat go in the center and the dump aquastat in the hole closest to the flue. So, the right aquastat is my dump zone control, the left aquastat is my outfire control (not connected right now), and the black box in the middle is the combo triple aquastat and low water cutoff.

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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 10:40 am

A lot of boilers (hot water) run without "low water" control.
If needed by/for inspection authority that is a different case.

 
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Post by rodmo1 » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 10:41 am

I installed a kaa-4-1 two years ago and have been very happy with it. For my setup I put the triple aquastat on the far right side hole and the dump aquastat on the top center. I also put the overpressure on the top of the unit. The only problem this created was a slight air pocket in the water jacket that can easily be bled off by manually activating the relief valve until the air is purged. If you are using a domestic coil I encountered an issue where the probe for the triple aquastat low water sensor is too close to the domestic coil and creates errors. Yes...They are all in the same unit. I believe there is a shorter probe that may prevent this issue by creating more space between the sensor and the domestic coil. Until I buy the shorter probe/well my low water cutoff will not work. I made a youtube video that shows fairly clearly how I did my install. Hope it helps!



Rod

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 11:19 am

Here’s what I’m trying to figure out.
The two holes on the side. What goes in them? I only have the one probe off the aqua stat that came with the boiler.
From watching one video I believe that the new probe is the temp and low water.
Did anyone put the high limit in the bypass coil or did you put this is the other hole next to the aqua stat?

Can anyone help with the wiring. I have no problem with wiring and love it. However I’m finding keystokers schematic to be crude to say the least to someone new to boilers.

Rod- I’ve watched your video and it’s been helpful. I just need some guidance as to where to put things and wiring it up and I’m sure I’ll make it work. I’m a farmer and a mechanic, wiring and making things work has always been my thing.

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What did you put in these hole?

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This is the confusing part. It shows a low cut out and aqua stat but only one probe off the box

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The probe in question.


 
lzaharis
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Post by lzaharis » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 12:24 pm

The low water cut off and the triple aquastat capillary probe are an all in one unit which is fine for cold start boilers but not for a coal stoker based on my past experience

Is your ash pit door on the left side of the boiler or the right side?????
If its on the left side, the 3250 plus attaches to the probe well before you slide the capillary tube in the probe well.
If your going to use it I would put the probe well on the right side tapping and plug the left tapping to avoid issues with the heat from the inspection door being opened.

The High limit control L6006A should be plumbed in the top of the firebox as there should be a tapping for the probe well in the center of the steam chest. all you have to do is insert the probe well per the honeywell instructions and then be sure to use the conductive paste for it an d if it did not come with conductive paste you need to buy some from a honeywell controls retailer/supplier. DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE FOR ANY OF THE PROBE WELL TAPPINGS as it will not allow the capillary bulb to sense the actual temperature of the water in the steam jacket.

=================================================================================================


I disposed of my hydrolevel units as they were defective and replaced them with a Honeywell L8124L1011 horizontal triple aquastat and a B+G RB-122-E low water cut off.

I also replaced the junk chinese gauges with a marshalltown triple gauge and I sleep every night not worrying about the boiler again.

Just so you know when I was given these two triple aquastats the second one was a replacement and also defective and the instructions that came with them stated that the Hydrostat 3250 Plus was only to be used on cold start boilers.


 
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McGiever
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Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Use one port and plug the other.
Wood87.mw wrote:
Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 11:19 am

Did anyone put the high limit in the bypass coil or did you put this is the other hole next to the aqua stat?

"Bypass coil"...is that supposed to "Bypass pipe/loop"???

L4006B (circulator control) should go in a Tee as shown in piping diagram...senses when to stop/start pump for too low of temp drop in water until sufficient hot water is made again available. (but I think your Hydrostat is already doing this...)

A "High Limit" could be a L4006A...which do you have?
APPLICATION
These boiler-mounted, immersion type controllers
operate in response to temperature changes in hydronic
heating systems.

L4006A breaks the circuit on a temperature rise to the
control setting. It is used for high limit or low limit control.
When used as a controller or as a low limit, a separate
high limit must be used.

L4006B makes the circuit on a temperature rise. It is
used as a circulator controller, delaying circulator
operation when boiler water temperature is below the
control setting

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Sun. Aug. 19, 2018 9:29 pm

UPDATE:
I Got it in and plumbed. Pressure tested. It held 30psi for 12hrs. I got the sides,feeder,and hopper on today.
Rod was and continues to be a huge help with this install.
NOW on to wiring.
If anyone has any insight to completeing it. Please feel free to help me along.
I have some sort of relay box that’s in question. It’s not in the schematic and I’m not a 100% on its function. Keystoker May build a quality product, but their instructions and schematics could sure use some updating.

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Relay box in question

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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 6:11 am

On my kaa-4 (coal only), red goes to stoker motor and black goes to combustion fan. They share the white return at the combustion fan connection. The fan has two blacks and it does not matter which one goes to white and which one goes to black. That "relay" box is actually a rheostat to lower the voltage to the fan between timer/run cycles. It is pre-wired. Just follow the "to timer" label and connect that side to the timer and the other side towards stoker.

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Last edited by nepacoal on Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
Qtown1835
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Post by Qtown1835 » Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 8:53 am

Is this boiler power vented?

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 8:49 pm

FYI... These newer stoker motors are actually 1.75 RPM and will need to be set 8 to 8.5 turns out to start. The older motors were 1 RPM and they recommended 5 turns out to start. So, if your stoker goes around in 34 seconds, use 8 to 8.5 turns out to begin with. Once it gets cold and you have a heat call for 30 minutes or more, you can adjust the stoker to have a full bed of burning coal with no hot coals falling off.

 
Wood87.mw
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Post by Wood87.mw » Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 9:09 pm

Qtown1835 wrote:
Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 8:53 am
Is this boiler power vented?
No. It’s going up my existing chimney.

 
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McGiever
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Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Aug. 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Ask any wiring Q's...here to help. :)

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Tue. Aug. 21, 2018 9:28 pm

All wired. Flipped the switch and all seemed to work. Fans turned on as well as the aquastat.
NOW. On to lining the chimney and hooking that up. As well as the getting the domestic coil hooked up.
Anyone have any words of advice on the coil?
Was thinking of running copper in/out
In line would have a back flow, out line with a mixing valve and putting it in the cold water side of the water heater. With valves incorporated in to be able to switch it back come warmer weather. Kinda using it as a preheater I guess. Any safety type things I need?
Was thinking of using pex once I get away from the boiler a bit, cause it would make it easier to tie into the water heater. Yes? No?

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