Help needed. KAA-4

 
rodmo1
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Stoker Coal Boiler: kaa-4-1
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Post by rodmo1 » Fri. Aug. 24, 2018 3:12 pm

I agree with the previous comments...just go with the existing clay liner. My flue has some cracks with no issues. You may be spending money to have a problem down the line. I recently put an SS cap on my chimney and I am interested in how long it takes to corrode. I also poured a new concrete chimney cap which will likely need replaced every 10 or so years. I had to rebuild the top 8 feet of my chimney because the corrosive nature of coal combustion ate away at all the mortar. When rebuilding the chimney the terra cotta was in relatively good shape. Also...The Tee for the flue on the back of the boiler is very important. I need to empty mine every 6 weeks or so. One time I went without and my CO detector started going off. One more thing...if you can get a CO detector with the percentage display. It would have been very helpful.


 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Sun. Aug. 26, 2018 8:39 pm

Finally one week and a day later. Many many trips to Lowe’s and other local stores. A few cuss words and lots a beers drank she is complete.
A HUGE THANK YOU! To everyone that gave me help and directions along the way.

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3FA8033E-532B-4F2D-84CA-1D490D60DEF5.jpeg

Complete.


 
lzaharis
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. Aug. 27, 2018 8:22 am

So far so good, you just need to move the barometric damper higher .preferably on the horizontal flue pipe to help with your draft.

Be sure to purchase a Dwyer Mark II manometer and a manometer probe to monitor your draft through the
fire viewing doors port where the screw is in the door. All you need to do is remove the screw and slide the manometer probe in the hole and you can leave it there all season to monitor your draft be sure to use the vacuum side of the manometer to obtain the correct readings which will be between .02-.04 depending on your chimney height.
The installation and operating instructions for the manometer are easy to use and follow when calibrating the manometer the first time and each each season as needed.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Mon. Aug. 27, 2018 9:16 am

Leon, the new Keystoker manual specifies baro installation "in first full section of stack closest to boiler". I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think that install is by the book (which may be important to building inspectors, insurance companies, etc.).

Mike

 
lzaharis
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
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Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. Aug. 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Hello Mike,

I wonder if the change is due to the rheostat fan control.

I wonder if they are going to ship new manuals to the people that have asked for them. I was told by Brian that the boilers would be the last designs that they would be working on to make them easier to understand versus the old installation manuals.

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Wood87.mw » Tue. Aug. 28, 2018 7:41 am

lzaharis wrote:
Mon. Aug. 27, 2018 8:22 am
So far so good, you just need to move the barometric damper higher .preferably on the horizontal flue pipe to help with your draft.

Be sure to purchase a Dwyer Mark II manometer and a manometer probe to monitor your draft through the
fire viewing doors port where the screw is in the door. All you need to do is remove the screw and slide the manometer probe in the hole and you can leave it there all season to monitor your draft be sure to use the vacuum side of the manometer to obtain the correct readings which will be between .02-.04 depending on your chimney height.
The installation and operating instructions for the manometer are easy to use and follow when calibrating the manometer the first time and each each season as needed.
The dampener is installed per keystoker and local codes.

Do you have a link to the manometer?

 
Qtown1835
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Post by Qtown1835 » Tue. Aug. 28, 2018 8:15 am



 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. Aug. 28, 2018 11:27 am

Hello Wood87.mw,

You need to take some 1 inch wood shims to raise the boiler skin off the floor to allow the ash pit door to swing freely. you will need to loosen the hopper mounting bolts a little to do this then then tighten them back up after the boiler skin is raised up to it proper height.

You will need to remove the cover off the fire inspection door if you use the draft manometer.

Be sure to lay down some duct tape over the 30 minute timer box and the rheostat box to act as flashing to prevent rice coal from getting wedged between the boxes and the hopper side wall; Yes it does wedge in behind the boxes and you will find it happens no matter how careful you are pouring the coal in the boilers hopper.

The hopper sheet metal and paint coating is too thin and it is subject to rusting from wet coal.
I used 2 coats of white rustoleum paint as a base coat to repair the rust damage somewhat and extend the hopper life and I used 3 coats of slick plate paint to coat the interior of the hopper to aid as a sliding agent to allow the rice coal to flow more freely. If you use the rustoleum and slick plates paint you should purchase a disposable welding fume mask to avoid breathing the slick plate paints fumes as they are very poisonous.

The hopper design that keystoker uses need to be changed as it does not allow free flow of material unless it is directly over the center of the stoker throat. Ideally a simple conical design could be used to allow the coal to flow more freely into the stoker throat by creating a round tapered conical hopper design which will allow what is referred to as "The Mass Flow of Granular Material".

One could use simple flat sheet metal cut to size and screwed in to place using self tapping screws to fit the interior of the hopper making 2 slopping walls with piece that conforms to the front and rear sections of the hopper and being sure to create enough slope to allow the coal to fall directly in the stokers feed throat. you may lose three bags in capacity by installing the 2 interior walls in the hopper but this can be compensated for by adding plywood extensions to the three exposed sides of the hopper and a forth piece in the front using a simple corner framing piece on each corner to prevent the coal from spilling forward on the boilers steam chest cover.




A new coal bin created using a conical base will be easier to use and reduce the amount of moisture that can accumulate in the hopper while it is in used as long as a continuous slope is used eliminating the shelf/base that is used in the current design which allows water to accumulate in the hopper bottom.

The hopper will lose some capacity of course but there are more advantages than disadvantages to changing the design of the hopper in that it will cost less money to make and sell replacements of when needed.
The owners of these boilers and furnaces could add capacity back to the hopper by simply bolting plywood sides to the four edges of the hopper after laying duct tape along all for sides to prevent coal duct from wedging between the metal sides of the hopper and plywood hopper side extensions.

Bagged coal is notorious for holding water either from the bagging process or the simple collection of moisture and rain water if stored outside even when covered with a water proof tarpaulin . Bulk Anthracite Coal stored outside will also collect moisture but not absorb it as it is hygroscopic.

The Kimmels brothers coal bags are or were open mouth polyester thread bags that were sewn shut after filling and they will drain moisture more easily than the Polyethylene form fill and seal bags even with the gripper pad holes in these bags front and rear portions.

Many of the members simply pour the bulk or bagged coal in to a series of two 5 gallon buckets with one bucket inside the other using the inner bucket as a drain bucket by drilling small holes in the bottom of this bucket to let it drain water away from the coal and fall into the lower bucket. The lower bucket is separated from the upper bucket by a simple clay or concrete brick to allow the draining water to accumulate in the lower bucket.

The dried out coal dust can be used as a fire starter when mixed with broken up charcoal briquettes that have been soaked with charcoal lighter fluid that has been allowed to dry before making a fire starter package.
I make up several of these fire starters before the heating season starts and store them in a sealed coffee can until I need them.

I use a small quantity of crushed charcoal briquettes that have been stuffed in toilet paper tube and then wrapped with some news print with the ends taped shut to start my coal fire at the beginning of the heating season by laying it in the small bed of rice coal on the fire bed of the stoker and then lighting it with a fat boy torch and then I take one or two more toilet paper tubes filled with rice coal and covered with news print with the ends taped to help with starting the coal fire after I have lit the first tube of crushed charcoal briquettes as it does not take very long to have a good coal fire going.

I have never had good luck using cowboy charcoal or the firestarter bags that you can buy to start a coal fire.
The compressed fire starter coal mice in the cardboard box do not start that well either and have a habit of not lighting the block of fuel when the fuse reaches the end at the box.

if your going to have bulk coal delivered into a coal bin in your basement a whole room dehumidifier will be your friend and aid in drying the bulk coal.


About your hopper:
If you have not done this already you should pound down the 3 tabs that will nest inside the stokers throat as it will allow a full flow width of coal into the stoker. These three tabs will be subject to even more rust due to the flow of coal and the heating of the coal. I used a 4 pound hammer to push them into place.

The automatic barometric damper will become less effective while in operation as the fly ash dust will adhere to the damper housing and damper flap and as a result it will become less responsive to the chimney draft requirements.
I installed the automatic barometric damper in a six inch tee with out screws as it makes it easier to remove and clean in a laundry sink filled with hot water and using dawn dish soap and a small metal parts cleaning brush.
You will want to clean it at least twice a season due to the ash build up simply due to the static electricity created by the forced draft fan pushing combustion air through the boiler and the flue gasses through the flue breech and into the chimney.


I found the plumbers I hired incorrectly set the automatic barometric damper for an oil fired boiler rather than a coal boiler and I had to change the location of the damper door weight all the way to the left and locked it in place.

The manometer probe that will work well for the Dwyer Mark II manometer is referred to as the static pressure tip.
It has worked very well for me for the last 2 winters. All you need to do is remove the screw in the fire viewing door and and slide it into place.

The part number is; 100560-00 A-489 STATIC PRESSURE TIP WITH FLANGE, STRAIGHT, 4"

The cost for this probe from the Dwyer Instruments headquarters in Indiana was $13.73 USD in 2016 with freight it will be slightly more with sales tax now.

The DWYER magnehelic gauge will cost more if you invest in that unit but the Mark two is designed to be used as a portable draft gauge measurement tool with its portable gauge stand and it is used by plumbers and furnace installers.

The Mark II is easy to calibrate after the dye is poured into the chamber as directed in the instructions and it is take care of with a simple wet cloth to clean it.

If you overfill it you must use a pipe cleaner to wick up the excess dye if you overfill it-been there done that.

To monitor the draft which is referred to as the pressure gradient drawing vacuum or Hg. you slip the hose end over the low port after you install the probe and hose on the "LOW" hose connection on the gauge body and the probe.
you will need to soak the hose end in hot water to allow it to slide over the connections on the probe and gauge body.

Don't worry about separating the two hoses that come with it they will separate easily after they are placed in warm water "not hot water" making sure that both sets of hose ends are above the water line.
Last edited by lzaharis on Tue. Aug. 28, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 6 times in total.

 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. Aug. 28, 2018 11:31 am

Its nice to see that Keystoker has FINALLY done "something" about the installation instructions.
At least having the videos on you tube now will help. I did see that they provide a gasket as a sealing flange for the stoker assembly now where none was provided with my unit.

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Fri. Aug. 31, 2018 4:50 pm

FIRST TEST RUN.
Stove started and ran perfectly. Got the rest of the system bled out and it was nicely warming the house.
Draft is good.
Domestic coil is working perfectly as planned.
Feeder seems to be doing its job perfectly at 4 turns out.(per a convo with Keystoker)
So far I am extremely satisfied with this. All seems to be running perfectly. And the CO Meter hasn’t triggered and it’s only about 3 feet away.

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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Fri. Aug. 31, 2018 5:38 pm

Glad to hear it's working so good. Once you start getting 30 to 45 minute heat calls, recheck your fire to see if you are pushing hot coals off the end. I suspect you have the same stoker motor i have and will need to back it out some...

 
Wood87.mw
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Post by Wood87.mw » Fri. Aug. 31, 2018 9:50 pm

That picture was shortly after start up.
This is after it had ran about 4 hours and had a constant call for about an hour while working the air out.
Over all I ran it for almost 6 hours and had no hiccups at all. Seemed to do as I hoped.

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nepacoal
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Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sat. Sep. 01, 2018 6:14 am

Well, an hour run should have definitely let you set the coal feed. Maybe they changed something again. I originally had Mine set at 5 out per their instructions but was pushing hot coals off. Kept backing it out and finally called Keystoker and they said the newer motors needed to be backed out 8 or more instead of the 5 turns like the older 1 RPM motors.
Last edited by nepacoal on Sat. Sep. 01, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
Wood87.mw
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa-4
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Post by Wood87.mw » Sat. Sep. 01, 2018 1:12 pm

Mines actually a 2014 model. It was an old brand new stock that they were looking to Move to get a newer one in.
He made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

 
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nepacoal
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sat. Sep. 01, 2018 3:22 pm

I think mine is a 2015... When you get a minute, time a revolution of the stoker motor. If it goes around in 34 seconds you have the newer 1.75 RPM motor... But your fire looked pretty good in that last picture so I wouldn't worry about adjustments until you start getting long heat calls once cold weather hits.


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