New Gentleman Janitor GJ-81 Owner - Info needed please!

 
janitor_ed
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-81

Post by janitor_ed » Sat. Sep. 08, 2018 7:12 am

Rob R. wrote:
Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 6:03 am
If you don't have any way to heat the house, isn't it game over anyway? Glycol in the boiler won't save the domestic water piping in the house if you have to walk away.
My thinking was that if we are completely without power for an extended period of time then I could drain the potable water lines. To me that seems preferable to draining the boiler system or having to drain two systems as opposed to draining only one.

 
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Post by janitor_ed » Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 10:50 pm

So I got some more disassembly work done on the GJ-81 tonight. Was a bit disappointed by some of my findings and o.k. with some others...

I found a broken ring in the fire pot. I'm guessing that it might have run like this for a long time. I'm not quite sure if this is something that could be repaired or not.
IMG_6509.jpg

Broken Ring 4th from bottom!

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Here is a close up of the broken ring. Seems like there must have been some tension in this as it look sprung out of alignment.
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Broken Ring 4th from bottom!

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One other thing that I was surprised to find.... it seems like there is some kind of gasket around the the underside of the top retainer ring. I'm guess that this has wee bit of asbestos in it. Yikes! Not sure if that is needed or what i would replace it with other than maybe some small rope gasket.
IMG_6508.jpg

Gasket on top ring?

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The flange on the air tube is rotted out where all of the fasteners were located. Actually despite the looks, the rest of the tube seems fairly solid. I guess I could fabricate a whole new tube or maybe I could just fabricate a new flange. Making just the flange could work for a season or two.
IMG_6513.jpg

Rotted out flange on the air tube

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Oh, and now I have something I'm a bit stumped about... and perhaps this is a complete noobie misunderstanding... So the rings in the fire pot, have cogs on the bottom side and it seems that ring below engages into a cog on the ring above. Should these rings rotate somehow in normal operation? If so, I can't see any type of mechanism to drive them.

 
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Post by StokerDon » Fri. Sep. 21, 2018 9:14 am

janitor_ed wrote:
Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 10:50 pm
I'm guessing that it might have run like this for a long time. I'm not quite sure if this is something that could be repaired or not.
That ring is cracked and burnt. It cannot be repaired and running it will create a hot spot that will eventually burn through the rings around it.
janitor_ed wrote:
Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 10:50 pm
it seems like there is some kind of gasket around the the underside of the top retainer ring.
All under-fed stokers have a gasket sealing the ash ring to the top of the pot. This keeps combustion air from escaping through the gap. It's just normal stove rope gasket, not a big deal.
janitor_ed wrote:
Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 10:50 pm
Oh, and now I have something I'm a bit stumped about... and perhaps this is a complete noobie misunderstanding... So the rings in the fire pot, have cogs on the bottom side and it seems that ring below engages into a cog on the ring above.
The tabs are for rotating pot stokers. In your case you don't have to worry about them.

-Don

 
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Post by janitor_ed » Fri. Sep. 21, 2018 12:51 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Fri. Sep. 21, 2018 9:14 am
That ring is cracked and burnt. It cannot be repaired and running it will create a hot spot that will eventually burn through the rings around it.
Yikes! Don, I'm assuming your saying no repair because the ring is cast (I think) and it would be difficult to weld?

-Ed


 
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Post by janitor_ed » Sat. Sep. 22, 2018 8:54 pm

Here is my first draft diagram of my proposed layout for my system. I'm happy to hear any feeback, constructive criticism, etc.
I have no doubt I've made some errors. I am trying to keep this system simple for now with the idea of expanding / improving as I go along.

A few notes...
I am aware that the diagram does not currently show any valves other than the zone valves. I will be adding in those valves in the next revision of the diagram.

The total run from the boiler located in the garage to the manifold in the house with be about 75 feet (150 feet both ways). My intention is to make this run using 1-1/4 inch oxygen barrier PEX.
System Layout_Simple_21Sep2018_1216.png

Simple Layout 21Sep2018_1216

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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Sep. 22, 2018 9:11 pm

Ed

One of the other hot water heads can correct me if I’m wrong, but I would think that you would want your air scoop and expansion tank to be the first in line after your circulator. It seems to me that the way it is drawn up now with the zone valve for the garage in the line first, you could get an air pocket trapped that just keeps running the loop.

On second thought, I might be over thinking this... is it possible to purge the air by running the house loop first and then open the zone valve to the garage? Seems to me you would still have air to get rid of in that garage zone.

Plumbing is not my strong suit

 
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Post by janitor_ed » Sat. Sep. 22, 2018 9:55 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Sat. Sep. 22, 2018 9:11 pm
One of the other hot water heads can correct me if I’m wrong, but I would think that you would want your air scoop and expansion tank to be the first in line after your circulator.
Ha! Funny part is that a soon as I posted the diagram and then was looking at it, I thought to myself, "I think that air scoop is in the wrong place". Well, I think I agree with your feeling that it should be first in line after the circulator. let's see what the consensus is on it.

 
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Post by Scottscoaled » Sun. Sep. 23, 2018 6:35 am

Air scoop, then circulator, then distribution.


 
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Post by Scottscoaled » Sun. Sep. 23, 2018 6:39 am

The tabs on the plates are for centering the plates in the stack. When I rebuild them, I place the tabs in line with each other so they support each ring when the top ring is bolted down.

 
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Post by janitor_ed » Mon. Sep. 24, 2018 10:53 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:
Sun. Sep. 23, 2018 6:35 am
Air scoop, then circulator, then distribution.
Thank you! I will be posting a corrected diagram soon.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 10:21 am

Just be sure to install a boiler drain on the return line to the boiler sump so you can purge the loop of air before you fire up the boiler.

The bladder tank goes under the air scoop and you install an automatic air vent on the top of the air vent-be sure to install a ball valve between the air scoop and the automatic air vent as they have a bad habit of failing and you will have to drain down the boiler if you have a leaking automatic air vent.

I installed a steel compression tank and in line air separator and and I avoid having to crawl around on my knees to bleed the bloody things and I am glad I did.

You can install an air scoop and pipe it to the airtrol fitting under the steel compression tank and you have a very large water cushion and air volume that will allow you to have a very low pressure system which heats very well at lower summer operating temperatures.

The Inline Air Separator "IAS" fitting that strips the air bubbles off the water flow and lets them rise to the airtrol fitting and into the steel compression tank where the air bubbles migrate to the air bubble above the water volume in the tank and dissolve over time. I no longer have to deal with air locked piping and having to deal with crawling around on my hands and knees to bleed air out of my baseboard radiators I hate my baseboard radiators and I wish I had cast iron radiators and steam heat.

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 10:57 am

Properly arranged near boiler piping allows for never crawling on knees at any baseboards...there are well written books covering this and many more subjects. See 'power purge' for the details.

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