Keystoker Rice vs Buckwheat

oliver power · Post by **oliver power** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 1:37 am

nepacoal wrote: ↑
Fri. Aug. 17, 2018 6:11 pm
Leon,
My coal only kaa-4 came with a hanging baffle plate so I assume they are used for coal too.

My Kaa-2 (Coal Only) also came with hanging baffle plate. The baffle plate blocks the gasses from going under the water wall baffles, and out the exhaust. The plate makes the gasses go up, over, and down between the water wall baffles. NO PASSAGES in the Keystoker "Stoker" boilers that I know of. You have water wall baffles. Stick your head in the ash pit, and look up. Those are water wall baffles (Baffles filled with water). Make sure you clean all around, in-between, and on top. If not, heat from the gasses will not get absorbed into the water wall baffles, due to build-up of fly ash, etc.. Your boiler will run a lot harder. Cleaning the water wall baffles made a HUGE difference in my Kaa-2 performance.

Here's what happens; You get your new boiler. It takes a winter, or two, maybe three to get're dialed in. During that time, hidden fly ash is building everywhere you can not see. You never clean it during the annual cleaning, because you can not see it. So, just when you think you have the boiler all figured out, and dialed in, you clean the water wall baffles. Now you find out the feed needs to be backed off another 2 - 4 turns. Now you have the boiler dialed in..........

My Kaa-2 struggled during the deep freeze. It held its own, but had no extra. The stoker ran continuously. After discovering, and cleaning all the build-up I couldn't see, the little Kaa-2 laughs at the deep freeze now. ........and that's with the feed backed off. So, when doing the annual cleaning, don't clean only what you can see. Clean what you can not see.

nepacoal · Post by **nepacoal** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 6:56 am

oliver power wrote: ↑
Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 1:37 am
My Kaa-2 (Coal Only) also came with hanging baffle plate. The baffle plate blocks the gasses from going under the water wall baffles, and out the exhaust. The plate makes the gasses go up, over, and down between the water wall baffles. NO PASSAGES in the Keystoker "Stoker" boilers that I know of. You have water wall baffles. Stick your head in the ash pit, and look up. Those are water wall baffles (Baffles filled with water). Make sure you clean all around, in-between, and on top. If not, heat from the gasses will not get absorbed into the water wall baffles, due to build-up of fly ash, etc.. Your boiler will run a lot harder. Cleaning the water wall baffles made a HUGE difference in my Kaa-2 performance.

Here's what happens; You get your new boiler. It takes a winter, or two, maybe three to get're dialed in. During that time, hidden fly ash is building everywhere you can not see. You never clean it during the annual cleaning, because you can not see it. So, just when you think you have the boiler all figured out, and dialed in, you clean the water wall baffles. Now you find out the feed needs to be backed off another 2 - 4 turns. Now you have the boiler dialed in..........

My Kaa-2 struggled during the deep freeze. It held its own, but had no extra. The stoker ran continuously. After discovering, and cleaning all the build-up I couldn't see, the little Kaa-2 laughs at the deep freeze now. ........and that's with the feed backed off. So, when doing the annual cleaning, don't clean only what you can see. Clean what you can not see.

I Will be cleaning it in a few weeks in preparation for heating season. I'll take some pictures of the inside. I have poked my head in there several times and all I have is a square box. There are no "passages" to clean on top of or around, just a square box with that hanging baffle

Post by **StokerDon** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 8:43 am

I would be very surprised if it was just a "square box" inside. If there are no heat exchange baffles in the exhaust side, the boiler would not be very efficient. You've been reporting some impressively low coal usage numbers. I suspect those heat exchange baffles are in there somewhere and you need to clean them.

Getting back to the hanging baffle. It is most likely there to make sure the hot gasses go up and through the heat exchange baffles. In summer, if you have marginal chimney draft, you can remove the baffle and this will reduce efficiency but improve the draft by putting a little more heat into the chimney.

Some of the older Keystokers have a Summer/Winter lever that does the same thing.

-Don

Post by **Rob R.** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 8:51 am

ShawnTRD wrote: ↑
Sat. Jul. 21, 2018 1:42 am
Anyone like Buckwheat over Rice in their Keystoker? I have the KA6 and I'm just wondering if I should try some. I think my normal Rice runs a little smaller then average.

Pro's vs Con's

Considering that rice is usually in higher demand than buck, I think anyone with that can burn buck should - so it leaves more rice for the rest of us.

Pro's for burning buck:

There is often a discount on buck, $10 per ton or so compared to rice.

Less fines.

Tends to hold less water

Less likely to clinker when burning hard.

Cons for burning buck:

Some guys report more trouble with outfires when burning buck in the summer. Might not be an issue if you have that small fan that runs all the time.

Not all dealers carry buck.

Qtown1835 · Post by **Qtown1835** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 9:16 am

I don't have a DF unit though not sure if that makes a difference.

**Edit**
Evidently I do have a baffle. It is not removeable that I can see.

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nepacoal · Post by **nepacoal** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 9:22 am

StokerDon wrote: ↑
Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 8:43 am
I would be very surprised if it was just a "square box" inside. If there are no heat exchange baffles in the exhaust side, the boiler would not be very efficient. You've been reporting some impressively low coal usage numbers. I suspect those heat exchange baffles are in there somewhere and you need to clean them.

Getting back to the hanging baffle. It is most likely there to make sure the hot gasses go up and through the heat exchange baffles. In summer, if you have marginal chimney draft, you can remove the baffle and this will reduce efficiency but improve the draft by putting a little more heat into the chimney.

Some of the older Keystokers have a Summer/Winter lever that does the same thing.

-Don

Ok, I went down and snapped a few photos in between timer cycles... Looks like a square box to me with a hanging baffle. I did call Keystoker and asked if I had passages like described by Oliver and they reported it was a square box inside. Certainly less efficient than the older ones but it does a great job heating our house and DHW. I'll call them again next week just to be sure. Shadow side is above stoker, non shadow is the side with the flue breech. The nubs sticking out are the weld locations

Post by **StokerDon** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 9:41 am

Wow, that's surprising to me, it is a square box!

Thanks for the pics.

So, looking inside the ash door you can see right into the flue outlet?

-Don

nepacoal · Post by **nepacoal** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 9:52 am

Yes, there is a "standoff" plate in front of the flue breech to keep you from blocking it with the ash tub. I'll take a quick pick... Check out the bottom pic from my install. A 4x4 goes right through the stoker opening to the breech

oliver power · Post by **oliver power** » Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 12:44 pm

Yep, No Doubt, That's different than mine. I have two water wall baffles, and one hanging steel plate baffle. The hanging steel plate baffle hangs down on the stoker side of the water wall baffles.

The water wall baffles do a great job of absorbing heat. From the sounds of it, so does your square box design. The question is; Did they change design because it's cheaper to build, more efficient, easier to clean, or all of the above?

These are reasons I chose a KEYSTOKER stoker boiler, over the HARMAN stoker boiler. KEYSTOKER has a lot more experience building boilers. HARMAN had one stoker boiler, and its been discontinued. KEYSTOKER thrives, and continues to evolve. Sure glad I made the right decision. Couldn't be happier with my Kaa-2 performance. Keystoker makes a simple, practical boiler.

oliver power · Post by **oliver power** » Sun. Aug. 19, 2018 3:40 am

nepacoal wrote: ↑
Sat. Aug. 18, 2018 9:22 am
Ok, I went down and snapped a few photos in between timer cycles... Looks like a square box to me with a hanging baffle. I did call Keystoker and asked if I had passages like described by Oliver and they reported it was a square box inside. Certainly less efficient than the older ones but it does a great job heating our house and DHW. I'll call them again next week just to be sure. Shadow side is above stoker, non shadow is the side with the flue breech. The nubs sticking out are the weld locations

I see you have a fair amount of build-up in your square box. For more efficiency, you'll want to keep it clean.

nepacoal · Post by **nepacoal** » Sun. Aug. 19, 2018 5:52 am

I clean the flue pipe several times per year but only clean the inside of the boiler right before heating season. If I clean it before the summer DHW season, it will overheat and dump. It typically idles between 200 and 210 all summer even as dirty as it is. We have not had a single call for DHW all summer. Idling has taken care of all our hot water requirements. It will handle back to back showers and several loads of laundry without dropping below 140 or so

lzaharis · Post by **lzaharis** » Sun. Aug. 19, 2018 11:16 am

Well,

Oliver, I have a big empty firebox with my KAA4-1 too.
You have convinced me to leave the baffle plate in place
after I remove the oil burner and I clean the boiler.
I will remove the baffle plate while I am cleaning it and
then put it back on the hangers.

I have to replace the Elbow going into the thimble with a 7 inch T and then put the reducer under the tee to tie in the flue pipe to make it easier to clean the connection to the chimney.

Leon

Keystoker Rice vs Buckwheat

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