Looking for a coal/oil boiler to run a steam system

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jul. 18, 2018 8:50 pm

Can you post pictures and measurements of your radiators?


 
lzaharis
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Post by lzaharis » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 10:35 am

rrob311 wrote:
Wed. Jul. 18, 2018 8:39 pm
I am certainly a novice with this steam system. Last winter I heated the place strictly with direct vent propane and kerosene heaters. It wasn't absolutely terrible but I was only heating 1/4 of the place and it still cost a couple grand or so in fuel. I was paying about 2.50 a gallon for propane and diesel. I have several tons of rice coal I would like to start using for the very cold months. I would like to recalculate the system to see what would be a good sized boiler to obtain.

===========================================================================================================
Once you pick a stoker that can burn rice or a mixture of rice and buck you can install one or more 3 or 4 inch drop headers to feed dry steam to your radiators and you will have a coal stoker boiler that will feed dry steam and there will be no pipe banging.

Just be doubly sure the the 2 risers from the steam chest are tall enough to create the height needed for the 3 or four 4 inch header to almost reach the ceiling joists before you install the first ninety degree elbows to make the header by installing the short nipples and then the second set of ninety degree fittings to the Tee's that will create the header pipe as shown in the image of this Dunkirk boiler and the drain pipe back to the water level in the boilers steam chest in this example.

The larger the header pipes (4") the more efficient the coal fired steam system will be and the pressure will be much lower as well to make all the heat you need.

Attachments

Dropheader -Dunkirk by Boiler pro.jpg
.JPG | 54.3KB | Dropheader -Dunkirk by Boiler pro.jpg
Last edited by lzaharis on Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
Phil May
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Post by Phil May » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 11:55 am

Pacowy
I am heating over 6000 sq' with my 700 and domestic HW. It does not even present a challenge for it. A 520 or 700 properly installed could heat any 2500 sq' house unless the windows and doors are open.

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 12:14 pm

Phil May wrote:
Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 11:55 am
A 520 or 700 properly installed could heat any 2500 sq' house unless the windows and doors are open.
you simply cannot guarantee this.

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 12:30 pm

No guarantee, but under normal circumstances, it's a safe bet. However the OP has not told us where he is in the world other that "northeast". He also stated that his basement gets down to minus 15 to plus 30 degrees in Winter and it is an 1800's farm house, possibly not insulated?

The EFM 700 is out of the question anyway as there was never a dual fuel option as required by the OP.

I believe that only leaves the EFM DF 520, Van Wert VA-600 (with DF option) and the Keystoker (with DF option).

-Don

 
Dave 1234
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Post by Dave 1234 » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 4:18 pm

Pair up two 520DF's and call it a day if the needs are that large. DF's show up on cl for 3500.00 often. They are easy to run and the parts that can go bad are easy to buy.

Dave

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Phil May wrote:
Sun. Jul. 22, 2018 11:55 am
Pacowy
I am heating over 6000 sq' with my 700 and domestic HW. It does not even present a challenge for it. A 520 or 700 properly installed could heat any 2500 sq' house unless the windows and doors are open.
AFAIK EFM itself has never made such a claim, and they have specifically warned against installing boilers that are underpowered relative to the radiation to which they are being attached. If you have ever tried to run an underpowered steam system you would understand why. How about just let the OP run the numbers to remove any doubt.

Mike


 
rrob311
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Post by rrob311 » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 10:43 am

The outside temps get to that level. The basement doesn't get quite that cold. The house is in central NH. The current boiler is rated at 268mbh. There are 10 radiators:

7x37x16 column type with 6 sections/2 rows (disconnected for upstairs kitchen)
5x38x24 tube type with 22 sections/4 rows (upstairs bedroom)
7.5x32x27.5 tube type with 16 sections/6 rows (tv/laundry room with pipe to upstairs)
8x27x30.5 tube type with 16 sections/6 rows (kitchen by basement entry)
4.5x16.5x23.5 tube type with 10 sections/4 rows (kitchen by window)
5x38x23.5 tube type with 22 sections/4 rows (dining room)
5x52x23.5 tube type with 30 sections/4 rows (Master bedroom)
8x23.5x13.5 tube type with 8 sections/6 rows (front entry with tube to upstairs)
5x38x23.5 tube type with 22 sections/4 rows (downstairs bedroom)
6x30.5x23.5 tube type with 18 sections/4 rows (disconnected in same room as one above)
Last edited by rrob311 on Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 11:01 am

rrob311 wrote:
Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 10:43 am
The outside temps get to that level. The basement doesn't get quite that cold. The house is in central NH. The current boiler is rated at 268mbh. There are 10 radiators:

7x37x16
5x38x24
7.5x32x27.5
8x27x30.5
4.5x16.5x23.5
5x38x23.5
5x52x23.5
8x23.5x13.5
5x38x23.5
6x30.5x23.5

Good work. Please tell us if the radiators are a column or tube type, and how many columns or tubes there are in each.

See the guide below for help.

https://www.expressradiant.ca/pdfs/product_classi ... how_to.pdf

 
rrob311
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Post by rrob311 » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 11:38 am

I will report back with the amount of sections in a few. I am updating the above list with perceived type and number of sections. I put more row info up as well. They differ.

 
rrob311
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Post by rrob311 » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 12:43 pm

The column style one appears to be a Gurney branded radiator.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 12:52 pm

It would also be good if you can provide any further info regarding that boiler rating, such as whether it is output or input, gross vs. net, etc. If you read the number off a nameplate it might provide such info right there.

Mike

 
rrob311
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Post by rrob311 » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 1:15 pm

838 sq ft steam output is the only other spec I can remember off of it.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 2:10 pm

I think it is in your best interest to continue measuring the radiation.

There may have been several radiators added or removed since the boiler was installed.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Jul. 24, 2018 2:53 pm

The 838 sf corresponds exactly to the net capacity of a boiler with a 268k gross output (using steam pickup factor of 1.33), so those numbers are consistent. If you don't have that much installed radiation, perhaps the boiler originally was sized to be able to run an old school shower head off a DHW coil in real time.

Mike


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