keystoker fan speed

 
lzaharis
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. May. 07, 2018 8:02 pm

I am beginning to think I need a fan motor.


A. Everything has been cleaned:
B. The flue gas passage from the thimble to the chimney was vacuumed out and is clean
C. The ash pit clean out was cleaned out a short time ago
D. The fly ash soot traps in the 2 Tees were dumped
E. The combustion air chamber under the flat bed fire grates was cleaned
F. The combustion air inlet screen was vacuum cleaned and is free of dust dust bunnies
g. The fan motor was vacuumed out to remove as much dust as possible and it starts right up.

The draft is good with .02-.04

I am running at summer temperatures just like I have all winter. the stoker is running around the clock with little high limit stoppages.

The stoker is set at 14 threads out and I have a very good bed of rice coal burning about 1.5 inches long with the normal 3 inch dead ash length over the end of the fire grates

SO I am at the point where I think the combustion fan is going bad.

When the combustion air blower is running it normally blows the combustion air with a lot of force through the fire grates and you can hear the hear the air passing through the grate holes.

I have no air leaks around the sides of the stokers fire grate holding frame or any cracked grates.

The dancing blue ladies are only 3 to 5 inches tall so I am thinking the blower motor is going bad.

The wire nuts for the motor connection are tight.

I own a greenlee voltmeter.
I do not own a non contact tachometer to check the motor speed but it certainly does not sound right.
I can borrow a clamp meter to check the motors condition/amp draw.

I have been running the stoker around the clock pretty much with the summer temperatures anyway with the cold so I am thinking the motor winding's are going bad.

I have seen the same thing happen with commercial clothes dryer motors where they slow down and continue to slow until they no longer spin.

I do not own an air compressor but I can borrow one to blow out the motor.

3 years, 3 winters so maybe its time to bite the bullet for a new blower motor.


 
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2001Sierra
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Post by 2001Sierra » Mon. May. 07, 2018 8:27 pm

Buying a replacement motor isn't the end of the world. My Keystoker90 came with a sleeve bearing combustion fan that I upgraded to a ball bearing Dayton fan. The current draw was also almost half of the original and the cfm was only slightly less.

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. May. 07, 2018 8:29 pm

I bought the motor below as a spare for my kaa-4. About $75 on Amazon. There is also a Dayton ball bearing motor that works (1TDP3).

Fasco 50748-D500 Centrifugal Blower with Sleeve Bearing, 2,900 rpm, 115V, 60Hz, 0.81 amps
Last edited by nepacoal on Mon. May. 07, 2018 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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WNY
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Post by WNY » Mon. May. 07, 2018 8:31 pm

cleaning it out good and Have you oiled it also? sometimes the oil holes are on the bottom and you have to let it soak real good off the unit.
I have a backup one, and only needed it once when mine started slowing down (forgot to clean/oil after the season), but cleaned and oiled it good and it still works after 15 years or so.

 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. May. 07, 2018 11:21 pm

Hello 2001Sierra, NEPACOAL, WNY-Dave,

Got it; Dayton electric motor (1TDP3), Fasco 50748-D500 centrifugal blower with sleeve bearing.

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions gentlemen.
I will check things out further when "we" are done heating "sometime" this summer.

I will be removing the hopper, moving the timer off the side of the hopper and removing the rice coal that got stuck between the timer box and the wall of the hopper. I will be covering it with duct tape to keep the coal from falling in behind it after I add a third self tapping screw to the back of the enclosure to hold it tighter to the side of the hopper. I will be washing down the interior of the hopper and then painting it with slick plate paint.
I have 3/4" plywood plywood to make a hopper cover with inner plywood wood corners to hold the hopper cover to keep it in place.

In other news, it cost me $75.00 USD to take my coal ashes to the transfer station last week. I would have dumped them in the other gravel driveway but the town would not be happy about it.

Now all I have to do is load up the old tires I had to hold down the wood tarps and spend $40.00 USD on that since I have more than 30 of them.

I have not burned any oil all winter(I did not have any anyway ha,ha, The oil burner is all set and properly adjusted for kerosene burning when and if we need to burn dinosaur juice. At least I am no longer making No. 10 smoke anymore since I not using the oil burner at all. Take that suburban propain!!

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Tue. May. 08, 2018 12:46 pm

Leon... In your first post above you did not mention lubricating the fan. As WNY mentioned, these sleeve bushing fans require yearly lubrication. Otherwise they slow down and start making noise. If you have not lubed it in 3 years, put 4 or 5 drops of specialized electric motor oil (3in1 makes one in a blue bottle). The lubrication points are on the outside edge on the bottom of the motor. you'll need to pull the motor to lube it. Then going forward, put 2 to 3 drops in it each year... Might last 10 or 15 years with periodic cleaning and lubrication.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. May. 08, 2018 1:49 pm

Have you cleaned the fan blades themselves? A dirty cupped blade can lose 75% of its possible airflow. Toothbrush works well.


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Tue. May. 08, 2018 2:29 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Tue. May. 08, 2018 1:49 pm
Have you cleaned the fan blades themselves? A dirty cupped blade can lose 75% of its possible airflow. Toothbrush works well.
Yup, adult son has used a small fan driven space heater for years at his place that began to stop working shortly after startup...leading edges of the fan were loaded with "lint" and w/o enough air flow would overheat and the "safety" would "kick it off", so...some disassembly and some good old fashion cleaning to remove the accumulated lint buildup on the fan blade's leading edge did restore it back into service.

While heater fan was already disassembled I took this opportunity to add a few drops of "Turbine Oil" to both ends of the motor shaft, using my non-petroleum base favorite lubricant.

This is same oil lubricant required in the Fields Controls SWG Power Vents but cheaper in a different label.

I've touted this product here a few other times...Only lubricant I use anywhere/everywhere. It doesn't carbonize in high heat environments as can petroleum base lubricants.

Also works well w/ plastics/nylon etc. and such, like rollers and slides etc. And has no petroleum odor.

Great stuff for your stoker's hold fire timer gear shafts and motor too. :)

For me it is worth it's weight in Gold ;)

Image

 
lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Wed. May. 09, 2018 12:55 am

Its funny, I do not remember reading anything in the keystoker literature about oiling the motor.

The two old B+G circulators that came with the AVCO boiler that was in the house when we bought it
had oil ports and I oiled them as needed. These old B+G units had the fly spring governors between the
motor and the circulator.

The original Cissel clothes dryers that pop had when he opened the laundry in 1972 were three phase 220 volt motors
that had bronze bearings and needed to be oiled once a month and they had an open fan housing and shell
to cool the armature and we used compressed carbon dioxide to blow the lint out of the motors for many years.
I did use the carbon dioxide and blower nozzle yesterday with the fan motor and then I started the stoker to see
if there was any improvement and there was not a lot of combustion air blowing through the flat grates.

When I pull the motor I will oil it and then start it up to see how well it runs.

I did clean the fan blades last season and they had some lint build up.

I will purchase a bottle of the SUPCO MO-98 and try it after I pull the motor.

Thanks much folks I appreciate the help.

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. May. 09, 2018 6:32 am

The stoker motor also requires oiling... Look through the fan cage on the spindle housing. You will find a 1/8" port with felt in it. It can take quite a bit of oil if dry, maybe 10 or more drops. I oil mine each month (drop or two to wet the felt) during heating season and keep an eye on it during summer DHW season

 
lzaharis
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Wed. May. 09, 2018 10:37 am

Thanks much NEPACOAL,

I could have sworn that I was told by Don Snow or Brian that the stoker gearbox for the KAA-4-1 is oiled for life.
I do know that the gearbox indicates an oil plug on one side.
I will pull the two fill plugs and squirt some oil in the gear box when I pull the hopper off and the blowers electric motor and check the stoker motor when I pull the hopper off in a week or so.

I have yet to receive "the replacement" "correctly drawn" drawings for the plumbing and electrical systems for the KAA-4-1 I purchased and and a new updated manual that I asked for 2 years ago.

I found the Supco oil at Ithaca Plumbing Supply and I wil be buying a bottle today.

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Wed. May. 09, 2018 12:51 pm

No, not the gearbox, the little motor beneath it. Look through the fan cage to see if you have a 1/8" port with felt in it. Look in the blue circle right above the fan in the picture below. The gearbox is sealed and does not require added lube. The shaft of the motor that turns the gearbox is what needs periodic lubrication.

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lzaharis
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Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Wed. May. 09, 2018 4:31 pm

Thanks much for the photo image nepacoal, I will oil it when I take the hopper off and do more cleaning of the boiler.

I guess I am done heating and making hot water with the stoker for the season. With the warm air that is sticking around now I can let the boiler sit with a work light in the ash pit to keep it dry.

I had an out fire on Sunday when we had our last really cold day and caught it before the stoker filled the ash basket.
===========================================================================================================

Gentlemen, I certainly appreciate the help you have given me with my boiler over the last three plus years.

I will probably burn even less coal next heating season than I did this year(weather dependent of course) after I oil the two motors and clean the stoker and pusher block after I empty the hopper and remove it to clean and paint it.

I used fluid film on the pusher and slider this year while I was burning and it worked pretty well.


With the oil tank empty I will just remove the burner and store it in a small plastic bin and put the burner hole cover plate and gasket back on the boiler so that I have more room to work around the boiler. I can order a shorter burner tube and electrode set for the Reillo burner to allow the burner box to be moved closer to the dry side of the boiler to gain more room when the time comes "if" I fill the tank again.

I plan on borrowing my brothers air compressor and cleaning the boiler walls using compressed air to get all the soot off the boilers inner walls. I will have the shop vac and the dust deputy running while I use the small air wand I have to clean it.
My hand held camera from Harbor freight has been a blessing for me for many little jobs including having to find the inspection door spring hand that slipped off the door. I guess I could bend it over a bit to make it stay in place.


thanks much nepacoal,

Leon

 
lzaharis
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Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Sun. May. 13, 2018 5:27 pm

Update on the KAA-4-1;

As it has become cold again I decided to clean the stoker up some more and I purchased a bottle of the SUPKO all purpose lubricant.

I squirted some of the supko oil on the Intermatic timer gears and reinstalled the timer in the box, Thank you Mcgiever for mentioning to do that. I did not think to remove the box to dislodge the rice coal that was stuck behind it but that can be done later when I pull the hopper off to clean and paint it

I pulled the fan motor itself off the fan housing vacuumed the fan blades off and rolled the motor over and squirted oil in the two lube holes and then reinstalled the fan motor and squirrel cage fan assembly. The fan is running better but I think the lack of care by me will require the purchase of a new motor as the blue ladies are not reaching the stem chest.

I removed the guard over the stoker motor and squirted some of the SUPKO oil in the oil hole as suggested by nepacoal.
I have been using fluid film on the pusher plate frame and it seems to work pretty well.

I turned the adjustment nut all the way in and then backed it out 8 threads and started a new fire with my crushed charcoal briquettes that were soaked with lighter fluid previously. After they started burning well I laid the newsprint bag filled with rice coal on the burning charcoal and the fire has been burning since Friday afternoon.

I backed the stoker off one thread on Friday night and its been hovering around 175-180 for the high limit since then which is fine.

I barely have 1/2 a bushel basket of coal ash since I started the fire on Friday afternoon.

Thanks much to everyone.

 
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nepacoal
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Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sun. May. 13, 2018 6:20 pm

Have you vacuumed out underneath the grates and used a 1/8 drill bit to clean the holes in the grates. If not, that may be your airflow issue. You'd be surprised how much can accumulate under the grates. Both should be done at least once per year.


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