Stoker Boiler Install - Ontario, Canada

PolarLight wrote: ↑

Mon. Apr. 09, 2018 12:21 am

Thanks Don, at least i 've learnt something today. My house is about 2800 and I am going to heat it with water to air heat exchanger inserted into the duct sys. Well, honestly i have no idea how to do it. About that PEX, 1-1/2 should work for me, what do you think?

I think you should start by calculating your anticipated loads and then size accordingly.

think i need to grab a good nextbook. I am newbie, if you can recommend me some good articles or book wouldbe happy.
Thanks in advance

Purchase a copy of "Classic Hydronics" and a copy of "Pumping Away" written by Dan Holohan from Barnes and Noble, Amazon or http://www.dansbooks.com

I have the books that McGiever mentioned and they are a godsend for the layperson and the plumber.

The other books that I have that Dan Holahan wrote are "How Come" and What Hydronics Taught Dan Holohan.

The books "Classic hydronics", "Pumping Away" and "How Come" are the three books you need to buy.

They are in paper back form and you can purchase them directly from Dan Holahan at his online bookstore www.dansbooks.com and you are supporting the author directly with your purchase as he is self publishing his books.

The book Classic Hydronics is spiral wound and is designed to be used by the plumber or lay person while installing or designing a heating system so you can just flip and fold pages as you work and read.

Dan makes learning about heating and plumbing fun, He also talks about the history of heating in his writing and it is not at all boring for a minute nor shy about correcting misconceptions about hydronic heating and you are still learning. He also spends time describing how hot water heating works and its history and its pioneers e.g. Mark Honeywell and the "deadmen" like Boyle and many others like his father that taught him a lot about plumbing.

The only thing I can and will warn against using is using antifreeze as you will need a second loop with a heat exchanger and separate circulator for every heating load.

In your case having hot water storage for your three heating loads will be more cost effective simply because you will be heating the water in a nurse tank like a 1,000 gallon repurposed used propane tank from AHONA.

The three heating loads will be pulling the hot water from the 1000 gallon storage tank and returning the cooler water back to the boiler in a return header with the three cooler return pipes to be reheated and circulated back into the 1,000 gallon nurse tank.

If you spend the money on an insulated storage tank like the insulated propane tanks sold by AHONA and the good expensive insulated pex tubing for all three heating loads you will be saving fuel and have a quicker return on your investment.

Many folks disagree with me about storage but it will work for you to your advantage as you can keep a large mass of water hot with less energy as it will take less energy to reheat it and to meet the demand.

Many folks disagree with me about storage but it will work for you to your advantage as you can keep a large mass of water hot with less energy as it will take less energy to reheat it and to meet the demand.

They disagree because what you just said defies the law of physics. With wood boiler storage is a big benefit, since they need to run wide open in order to burn clean and efficiently. A coal stoker boiler is not that way. Adding a 1000 gallon tank to the mix not only adds considerable cost, it takes up a lot of space. If the tank is not located in an area you wish to heat, it increases the amount of heat lost to the environment. Keep the btu's in the coal until you need it.

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sat. Apr. 21, 2018 11:45 am

They disagree because what you just said defies the law of physics. With wood boiler storage is a big benefit, since they need to run wide open in order to burn clean and efficiently. A coal stoker boiler is not that way. Adding a 1000 gallon tank to the mix not only adds considerable cost, it takes up a lot of space. If the tank is not located in an area you wish to heat, it increases the amount of heat lost to the environment. Keep the btu's in the coal until you need it.

Exactly what he said up there ^^^^^^^^^^

The only gain from a storage tank would be to handle an extra heavy load time period & it would help even out the load.
A storage tank would help my boiler at 6 am during the extreme cold temperature days when the load is nearly maxing my boiler & even then it would be most beneficial if the tank was in my shop,shedding some heat ... where it is needed. But,the benefit of the tank would not cause less coal to be burned per 24 hr time period. Yes, less coal would get burned during the highest peak demand ,but not less in the long run.

Thanks guys for the books. I will definitely buy them.
About storage tank, I always thought that 1000gallon tank is a good idea for people who have manual non-automatic boiler. Something that can give you a lot of BTU but for a quick period of time. So, water tank accumulate that peak of BTU and then sorta spead it out over 24 hours.
For example i am coming back from work and fire the boiler at it maximum power for several hours heating 1000gallons, then hot water being used to heat property.
I just bought fully automatic boiler, i would like to buy another data logger and connect it to the boiler. So, I will keep all my my property heating system nicely integrated and monitored. In addition to the boiler a I am planning to install solar panels to heat water in summer and all pumps, fans going to be connected to the batteries which are being charged from the Sun.

Electricity getting more expensive once I hit 1000kWt per months threshold, Another reason electricity often down in my area.

The another reason why I decided to stay away from any water tank is the fact that it cools quicker as temperature drops. See, we need more heat when its -40C outside, but water temperature inside of a tank also drops at higher ratio during extreme cold. Because of the temperature gradient no matter how good its insulated.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Intuitively i undestand its that way.
Laws of physics say its costly to store energy. So, i would better keep BTU inside of a coal.

Modern Hydronic Heating: For Residential and Light Commercial Buildings (MindTap Course List)

What do you guys think about that book?

Solar hot water has some great ways to data log that are easily adapted over to any hot water distribution system.

Resol is one such system manufacturer I have studied and will be implementing for both solar and coal fired boiler energy measurements.

PolarLight wrote: ↑

Sat. Apr. 21, 2018 6:52 pm

Modern Hydronic Heating: For Residential and Light Commercial Buildings (MindTap Course List)

What do you guys think about that book?

It is an excellent resource, but also the most technical.

Thank guys, I will buy them both.
My birthday is coming soon. So, I asked my wife for a good present .
Snow is finally gone in our area and I am started installing chimney. More photos will be coming soon

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sat. Apr. 21, 2018 11:45 am

They disagree because what you just said defies the law of physics. With wood boiler storage is a big benefit, since they need to run wide open in order to burn clean and efficiently. A coal stoker boiler is not that way. Adding a 1000 gallon tank to the mix not only adds considerable cost, it takes up a lot of space. If the tank is not located in an area you wish to heat, it increases the amount of heat lost to the environment. Keep the btu's in the coal until you need it.

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UM,

With a properly insulated storage tank you are not losing a lot of heat. The propane tanks that AHONA re purposes are either stacked or left on the ground side by side.

My fathers laundromat and many other laundromats have 500+ gallon hot water tanks that are insulated and hold hot water for use in the coin laundry washing machines and it has been this way since 1972 and it has a new tank now as the old one developed a pinhole leak 5 years ago.

Lots of hotels have hot water storage tanks in their basements and the hot water is circulated from the basement to the top floors around the clock and the hot water that is unused is returned back to the basement to be reheated.

A good example of mass water volume storage would be our local high school in the boiler room in the main building in 1970 and from what I remember.

The system was placed in service in 1962-63 and they had at least three 10,000 gallon tanks filled with hot water from the gas fired boilers making hot water and pumping it through the numerous building access utility tunnels from the boiler room to the baseboard hydronic heating system across the entire 6 acre campus.

The larger buildings were never cooled with chillers and depended on natural cross ventilation for cooling while I was there.

The campus has had new additions and old buildings were expanded It has several 2 story class room buildings, an Olympic size swimming pool, a large above ground auditorium and a below ground stadium seating classroom in the administration building and very large cafeteria that were made of concrete block and it heated poorly because of 1962-63 year design of the buildings and the fact that they had single pane windows. They are using the lake source cooling system to heat the buildings now.

I am burning wide open with my keystoker now with 16 threads out to make hot water and circulate hot water through the house. The boiler bypass valve is closed and I have the water slowed down from the returns a bit with the ball valves 1/2 shut.
My return water is 120 degrees+- and the hot water in the steam chest is 140-160 and I have been running with the circulator at speed 1(13 G.P.M.) at 4-7 PSIG all winter through the single 225 foot loop of 3/4 fined baseboard.


My thoughts anyway,

You didn’t get your school to switch to steam???