Hot water issues
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- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
Ok I am new to owning a coal stoker. I also have an engineering degree so i should be able to follow along with what is being stated ( I hope).
I am buying a house that I previously was renting. So now I need to learn the boilers operation and hopefully fix a nagging issue with it. I'm reasonably sure it's an efm 520 with a domestic hot water coil and no secondary heating system. It used to have all the hot water I wanted to shower with until a repair was made to the plumbing by landlord. Since then it can't keep hot water but for 2 minutes then how's to a little less than lukewarm. So then with cold water completely off I'll back the hot water down to just barely on and hot water will return for maybe another 10 minutes.
I should mention the repair was to replace a leaking ball valve within the incoming water feed source (city water). And that something else also to mention. Incoming water is split w/ a copper "tee" where it then goes to the low side of the DHWC with a ball valve in between. The other leg of the "tee" goes to a shut off valve ( which replaced the leaky ball valve) then to a pressure regulator then immediately under that is a pressure relief valve and finally is piped into the left side (as your standing facing and looking at the back of the boiler )return port. The very bottom of it has a drain valve also. Why would it be plumbed that way? Also there is no regulator for the water entering the coil. Just a ball valve with a bleeder port between tee and coil. Also nothing installed on the coil outlet side other than a ball valve w/ bleeder port.
Also there's a tank in the floor joists. A pipe comes out the top center of boiler ( 1/2"- in fact All Plumbing talked about so far has been half inch) continues up 12in then does a 90-degree turn and comes to a ball valve with a bleeder port. Then goes slightly at an angle upward to the bottom of the tank. On the other end of the tank at the bottom looks to be a ball valve for drainage and there is nothing else attached to this tank besides that. The earlier mentioned landlord had also trained water out of that tank stating to me and needed to be done every so often. I know that was all long-winded and I'm hoping the details will be able to narrow down the possibilities to fix this problem. I appreciate any productive input and this form has been a great source of information for me so far in learning about this kind of heating system.
I am buying a house that I previously was renting. So now I need to learn the boilers operation and hopefully fix a nagging issue with it. I'm reasonably sure it's an efm 520 with a domestic hot water coil and no secondary heating system. It used to have all the hot water I wanted to shower with until a repair was made to the plumbing by landlord. Since then it can't keep hot water but for 2 minutes then how's to a little less than lukewarm. So then with cold water completely off I'll back the hot water down to just barely on and hot water will return for maybe another 10 minutes.
I should mention the repair was to replace a leaking ball valve within the incoming water feed source (city water). And that something else also to mention. Incoming water is split w/ a copper "tee" where it then goes to the low side of the DHWC with a ball valve in between. The other leg of the "tee" goes to a shut off valve ( which replaced the leaky ball valve) then to a pressure regulator then immediately under that is a pressure relief valve and finally is piped into the left side (as your standing facing and looking at the back of the boiler )return port. The very bottom of it has a drain valve also. Why would it be plumbed that way? Also there is no regulator for the water entering the coil. Just a ball valve with a bleeder port between tee and coil. Also nothing installed on the coil outlet side other than a ball valve w/ bleeder port.
Also there's a tank in the floor joists. A pipe comes out the top center of boiler ( 1/2"- in fact All Plumbing talked about so far has been half inch) continues up 12in then does a 90-degree turn and comes to a ball valve with a bleeder port. Then goes slightly at an angle upward to the bottom of the tank. On the other end of the tank at the bottom looks to be a ball valve for drainage and there is nothing else attached to this tank besides that. The earlier mentioned landlord had also trained water out of that tank stating to me and needed to be done every so often. I know that was all long-winded and I'm hoping the details will be able to narrow down the possibilities to fix this problem. I appreciate any productive input and this form has been a great source of information for me so far in learning about this kind of heating system.
- McGiever
- Member
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- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
until a repair was made to the plumbing by landlord
Upstream plumbing tasks can often disturb scale and other crud causing it to dislodge and flow to another location of entrapment.(partially closed valve)the repair was to replace a leaking ball valve within the incoming water feed source (city water)
Possibly this has caused your new found problem.
Suspect the tankless coil hot water out gate valve is likely being used as a "throttle" to meter the hot water leaving the tankless coil before blending it w/ some cold water to temper the normally overly hot water for hot water scald protection at the outlet(s).
Maybe try cranking that valve open and closed a few times to allow any crud to breakup or dislodge and get moved out through a temporarily Opened drain valve w/ a hose or bucket to purge the crud into would get you back in business.
But remember, you will likely need to recalibrate that throttle valve for safe water temps again.
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- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
Ok I'll get those pics posted straight away.
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- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
-
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
-
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
-
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
-
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
- CoalJockey
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You may have deeper troubles than first thought. The back of that boiler and especially around your coil mount looks VERY nasty. I think I see at least one broken coil stud and the gasket is mushroomed out so far it could be cracked. At any rate, there has been water leaking somewhere in that are for quite sometime to cause that kind of rust.
The others will chime in here soon too, but I would say at the minimum that domestic coil needs to be pulled, broken or rotten studs replaced, and gasket surface are examined for pitting. Personally, I would want to overhaul that ASAP but you may want to try to limp it through the Winter.
The others will chime in here soon too, but I would say at the minimum that domestic coil needs to be pulled, broken or rotten studs replaced, and gasket surface are examined for pitting. Personally, I would want to overhaul that ASAP but you may want to try to limp it through the Winter.
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- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
Thanks McGiever for responding.
I did what you suggested and can say that I did definitely get very dirty water. I did not see anything in the water as far as scale pieces or anything go however.
Also in turning it in and out now the valve has sprung a leak. Go figure. But all the way turned out has it to a drip once every minute. And that's where it was before I started turning on it. Actually those valves on either side of the tankless coil seem to look like they're installed just to stop water flow in the event that the coil needs to be removed. But I'm definitely no expert on this so maybe the pictures will help clarify. I will head for the shower and see if this is made an Improvement.
I did what you suggested and can say that I did definitely get very dirty water. I did not see anything in the water as far as scale pieces or anything go however.
Also in turning it in and out now the valve has sprung a leak. Go figure. But all the way turned out has it to a drip once every minute. And that's where it was before I started turning on it. Actually those valves on either side of the tankless coil seem to look like they're installed just to stop water flow in the event that the coil needs to be removed. But I'm definitely no expert on this so maybe the pictures will help clarify. I will head for the shower and see if this is made an Improvement.
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- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 23, 2018 12:42 pm
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm 520
Absolutely it has I thought also and still does have a very small leak at the gasket. I hear it and see water trickle out only enough to get a foot down the boiler until it's evaporated off. No broken studs at this point and I spray the bolts everyday which is why I have the cabinet off in the back. I am hoping to limp through winter cuz I was also going to replace the piping also in the back. So I'm open to suggestions if it should be piped differently than it is.
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
How;s that shower? And how's the hot water at the washing machine?
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Turn your hot water on at the tub. Run down and trace the piping with your hand. See where it starts to change from warm to cold. I mean you have cold water going into the DHW coil...put your hand on the outlet side and start testing from there. That will tell you if you have a coil issue or a mixing valve down stream.
Don
Don