Boiler Recommendation

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nickdearing88
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Post by nickdearing88 » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Hi everyone.

I'd like to hear some boiler recommendations for my radiant project this spring/summer. My ideal boiler would burn coal primarily but be able to use propane (and ideally wood) as a backup. I know that wood use pretty much rules out a stoker so I was leaning the hand-fired route but I'm open to ideas. I have a hydronic design background but this will be my first solid fuel boiler.

I'm trying to avoid wrapping up several thousand dollars in a separate LP boiler when I would prefer to use coal as a primary fuel source. But, I'm also worried about not having an "easy" backup available if I were sick, hurt, extended away from home, etc. I also like the idea of LP in the summer for DHW. Propane won't be leaving my home in the near future as I have a gas range, oven, and clothes dryer.

I also have a nice, recently re-pointed, inspected, and lined 32' interior masonry chimney with a 6" SS liner. Needless to say, lack of draft is not a problem. With my current work schedule and hand-fired forced air furnace, I usually burn wood or coal on the weekends and long periods of time-off. Then rely on the LP furnace during the week and when away from home.

So far I've looked at the Alternative Heating CoalGun (no backup available) and hand-fired boiler (with backup). I feel the pricing is a bit high and their hand-fired unit requires an 8" flue. I also like the EFM hand-fired unit but doesn't appear to have a backup available.

So I need a 6" vent, about 100,000 BTU/Hr, ideally coal, LP, wood -- in order of priority. I have to stay about $5,000 or under for the boiler budget (not including the rest of the system).

 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 6:53 pm

Welcome Nick,
I understand your reasoning but, I'm sorry to say I don't think you will find these features in one boiler. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure propane or natural gas mixed within a solid fuel appliance is a big safety no-no. I also have never seen a 100,000 BTU coal boiler with a flue smaller than 8" with the exception of Axeman Anderson and AHS, but they're a different animal altogether.

-DOn

 
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2biz
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Post by 2biz » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:20 pm

I think this one fits the bill.....110K BTU Dual Fuel Boiler Stoker with either propane or NG as an added option...6" top flue...

[Link Removed]

 
CDF_USAF
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Post by CDF_USAF » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:25 pm

Keystoker and AHS are the two that come to mind right off the bat that have dual fuel(oil) hand feds, but both have an 8in flue, maybe they can be swapped for propane, you would need to ask them though. The manufacturer would also be able to tell you if your particular chimeny may work for their boilers, both companies respond relatively quick to calls or emails. Even if you eliminate wood, the stokers that are dual fuel, most are not an automatic switch over.


 
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StokerDon
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:42 pm

2biz wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:20 pm
I think this one fits the bill.....110K BTU Dual Fuel Boiler Stoker with either propane or NG as an added option...6" top flue...

[Link Removed]
That's pretty interesting. I didn't know the LL could burn gas. Actually, I didn't know any coal boiler could burn gas.

-Don

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:47 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:42 pm
That's pretty interesting. I didn't know the LL could burn gas. Actually, I didn't know any coal boiler could burn gas.

-Don
The LL was designed to burn gas. The coal stoker is a LL add-on to an Axeman Anderson NG/Propane furnace/boiler.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:25 pm

Can you leave the LP furnace in place? That seems like the easiest back up option to me. If the LP unit is currently using your chimney, it could be power vented.

If you are looking to remove the hot air system entirely, and you want a single appliance, you are pretty much stuck with the LL unit, Keystoker, or an EFM.

Why does the chimney have a SS liner?

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 10:18 pm

Yeah, any dual fuel hand fed w/ a oil burner can be swapped out to a gas gun burner.


 
nickdearing88
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Location: NW PA
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
Other Heating: LP Boiler

Post by nickdearing88 » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 8:23 pm

Thanks, this might be a good option. I'll check it out and review the manual. Does anyone on the forum have experience with this unit?
2biz wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:20 pm
I think this one fits the bill.....110K BTU Dual Fuel Boiler Stoker with either propane or NG as an added option...6" top flue...

[Link Removed]

 
nickdearing88
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
Location: NW PA
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
Other Heating: LP Boiler

Post by nickdearing88 » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 8:26 pm

I assume AHS is Alternative Heating Systems (aka CoalGun). I have emailed with them (and they were very responsive) but the 8" flue is a requirement (except the CoalGun) and it has no gas backup available. Manual switch-over is not a problem. My biggest use for propane would be the tail start/end of heating season and DHW in the summer. I just feel much safer having a backup if needed. I will checkout Keystoker but I think they also require an 8" flue.
CDF_USAF wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:25 pm
Keystoker and AHS are the two that come to mind right off the bat that have dual fuel(oil) hand feds, but both have an 8in flue, maybe they can be swapped for propane, you would need to ask them though. The manufacturer would also be able to tell you if your particular chimeny may work for their boilers, both companies respond relatively quick to calls or emails. Even if you eliminate wood, the stokers that are dual fuel, most are not an automatic switch over.

 
nickdearing88
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu. Nov. 23, 2017 3:11 pm
Location: NW PA
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: DS AquaGem 1100
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk pea/nut
Other Heating: LP Boiler

Post by nickdearing88 » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 8:31 pm

The furnace is shot (17 years old and never serviced) and the whole forced air system is a disaster and will be torn out and replaced with hydronic radiant (floors and some walls). The current LP furnace is PVC vented; it's an early high-efficiency unit.

The liner was already in place right before I bought the house. Why would it be bad to have a SS liner, even in a brand new chimney? I thought liners were always a good idea to improve draft, easier to keep clean, an extra layer of protection as the clay liner degrades, etc.
Rob R. wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:25 pm
Can you leave the LP furnace in place? That seems like the easiest back up option to me. If the LP unit is currently using your chimney, it could be power vented.

If you are looking to remove the hot air system entirely, and you want a single appliance, you are pretty much stuck with the LL unit, Keystoker, or an EFM.

Why does the chimney have a SS liner?

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Dual fuel boilers always give up efficiency for convieniance. If it were me, I would run two seperate boilers (like I do). I prefer 100% backup, with a dual fuel, that number is cut by 50.

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Jan. 20, 2018 9:03 pm

On the liner issue, there is a sulphuric acid that is released through the exhaust and over time that acid will rot the stainless liner. It will not happen overnight but it will eventually get there.

I piped my EFM into a 7 inch liner last Fall that was leftover from the oil burner. The firebox wanted to pressurize and I had very poor draft. We pulled the liner out and running just off the brick chimney I now have more draft than I can possibly use.

My lesson learned? Coal and chimney liners are not meant for each other.

On my other EFM at my old place, I used double wall insulated stainless pipe to make a flue. It took about 6 years but the exhaust rotted the stainless chimney cap right off the pipe! :o

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