EFM520-heat Driveway?

 
mcguirehg
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon. Sep. 17, 2012 9:34 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by mcguirehg » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:36 pm

We will be replacing our driveway. We are thinking if it’s practical to put in another zone to heat the driveway when needed? I could even put a zone in the garage for those real cold days since it’s attached to the house. The driveway will be cement or pavers (depending on cost). I would run the pex myself to the boiler and driveway. Would this be cost effective to run another zone to my boiler? Would it be practical to use the same zone for the driveway and garage or separate them out. I’m just exploring my options st this point. We burn rice in our EFM520 with an indirect hot water heater....


 
grumpy
Member
Posts: 12288
Joined: Sat. Jan. 02, 2010 12:28 am

Post by grumpy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:47 pm

Thats a great idea, never have to plow the drive again, but another zone with water ? Don't think water is good it will freeze no ? unless you use a heat exchange with some type of antifreeze..

 
grumpy
Member
Posts: 12288
Joined: Sat. Jan. 02, 2010 12:28 am

Post by grumpy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:50 pm


 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:53 pm

I would think you would need to use a separate zone. Not only that, you will need to use a heat exchange because the driveway zone needs antifreeze.

Also, heating a driveway will probably use every BTU your EFM can put out.

-Don

 
User avatar
gaw
Member
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 2:51 am
Location: Parts Unknown
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Post by gaw » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:55 pm

I visited someone I went through school with several years ago and he had done something similar. His 520 is in the garage and heats the garage and the house via in floor radiant heat and he has a heated driveway. He showed me his setup and I think he had to open some valves and manually turn the heat on for it. We didn’t get very in depth about any of it but he did say he burns through a lot of coal to thaw the driveway. I have no idea what for coal usage he was talking about in terms of pounds.

 
mcguirehg
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon. Sep. 17, 2012 9:34 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by mcguirehg » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 9:01 pm

My thought is if we are doing the driveway over, maybe this can be done at a reasonable cost. However, I’m certainly not a heating expert or expert with the EFM520. I hopeful I can find some true answers if this is a feasible project?

 
grumpy
Member
Posts: 12288
Joined: Sat. Jan. 02, 2010 12:28 am

Post by grumpy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 9:08 pm

How big is your driveway? Why not electric? Do you plow or do you hire out ?


 
mcguirehg
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon. Sep. 17, 2012 9:34 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by mcguirehg » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 9:19 pm

We will be making the driveway larger. It will be 30 by 68. I currently use a snowblower. Trying to see what makes the most sense at this point.

 
grumpy
Member
Posts: 12288
Joined: Sat. Jan. 02, 2010 12:28 am

Post by grumpy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Go for it, think no more out in the cold, throw a switch or turn a valve...

 
User avatar
Freddy
Member
Posts: 7293
Joined: Fri. Apr. 11, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: Orrington, Maine
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Post by Freddy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 10:15 pm

It can be done, but make sure the numbers are crunched. I have a buddy that put tubing in a walkway & got the sizing wrong..... it just doesn't put out enough BTU's to do the job. And, yes, it takes a LOT of BTU's to melt snow. The information is out there.

 
User avatar
pintoplumber
Member
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue. Mar. 31, 2015 8:44 pm
Location: Lititz PA
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham number series 17
Other Heating: Oil, forced hot air. Rheem

Post by pintoplumber » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 11:52 pm

I have a little experience melting snow with an oil boiler.
We built a 24’x40’ garage on the lot next door. I wanted to have radiant heat in the floor. I thought since we’re halfway there let’s put heat in the driveways and sidewalk. This was 1990. I used 1/2” polybutylene on 12” centers. I run a 40/60 mixture of boiler antifreeze and water. I love the garage heat.

When this picture was taken, we had two 20” snows about a week apart. This was the 2nd snow. I think I was running a 1.0 gph nozzle. You’re probably running 20-36 hours during a good snowstorm. You should turn the heat on 4 hours before the snow falls. My antifreeze mix is good to about -20 and it will still circulate to about zero. When it’s that cold I don’t run it. It works best in the 20’s. I have 180’ of sidewalk and 3 driveways from curb to garage. I think I can fire the boiler as high as 1.65 gph but haven’t tried that. Uses a lot of oil just to keep the sidewalk melted. Dennis

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 1:29 am


 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 10:25 am

Speaking as a NYSDEC certified but unregistered water well driller and pump installer:

To clear up a couple of things for you: you need asphalt or concrete to do this cost effectively and with a high efficiency per ton of heating.capacity with the loops buried in fine mortar sand under the asphalt or buried deeply in a thick continuous reinforced concrete slab made with sand mix concrete to reduce the chance of the tubing becoming damaged.

Before you do anything you should look at a geothermal set up to do this with asphalt as the installation is simpler burying the tubing in fine sand . You can keep the water/alcohol temperature lower and also use the land your property sits on if you have several acres that you can run one continuous loop of black polyethylene pipe in one piece to reduce the need to use an electric polyethylene pipe fusing machine as little as possible.

The heat transfer with asphalt is easier also but your going to burn a lot of coal to do this as well depending strictly on how warm you want the ground to be.

In car washes with concrete or asphalt heated floors the the antifreeze is heated in gas boilers and kept near boiling temperature to maintain the highest rate of ice melting and snow removal in car wash bays and entrance aprons on both sided of a car wash bay or numerous car way bays/stalls.
(my father operated a car wash with heated floors for many years)
If you persue this option and you can bury your geothermal loop on a large section of property that you own
do not let them bury it less than 6 feet deep to maintain a 52 degree ground temperature to maintain the maximum heat exchanging effectiveness for a geothermal system.

Just keep in mind that you will need a higher temperature to do this at all times if you have a small volume of heat transfer medium like non toxic antifreeze or an alcohol mixture.

Geothermal systems for ice melting can be and are used with steam heating and in areas with a high amount of foot traffic like a university campus that heat large amounts of water to make steam and domestic hot water as well.

In Japan they use geothermal heat effectively within areas that have hot springs in the northern island of Hokkaido to melt snow on sidewalks and in snow melting stations to dispose of huge quantities of snow fall in areas of high population density.




.

 
User avatar
windyhill4.2
Member
Posts: 6072
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 10:33 am

EFM520-heat Driveway?

DO YOU SEE GEOTHERMAL IN THAT TITLE ??????

No ?

I don't either !!!!!!

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 10:45 am

Just to clarify for you, the fact that the ground is in contact with the tubing whether it is buried in concrete or under asphalt or pavers the system is considered geothermal.
Last edited by lzaharis on Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”