EFM520-heat Driveway?
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We will be replacing our driveway. We are thinking if it’s practical to put in another zone to heat the driveway when needed? I could even put a zone in the garage for those real cold days since it’s attached to the house. The driveway will be cement or pavers (depending on cost). I would run the pex myself to the boiler and driveway. Would this be cost effective to run another zone to my boiler? Would it be practical to use the same zone for the driveway and garage or separate them out. I’m just exploring my options st this point. We burn rice in our EFM520 with an indirect hot water heater....
- StokerDon
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I would think you would need to use a separate zone. Not only that, you will need to use a heat exchange because the driveway zone needs antifreeze.
Also, heating a driveway will probably use every BTU your EFM can put out.
-Don
Also, heating a driveway will probably use every BTU your EFM can put out.
-Don
- gaw
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I visited someone I went through school with several years ago and he had done something similar. His 520 is in the garage and heats the garage and the house via in floor radiant heat and he has a heated driveway. He showed me his setup and I think he had to open some valves and manually turn the heat on for it. We didn’t get very in depth about any of it but he did say he burns through a lot of coal to thaw the driveway. I have no idea what for coal usage he was talking about in terms of pounds.
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My thought is if we are doing the driveway over, maybe this can be done at a reasonable cost. However, I’m certainly not a heating expert or expert with the EFM520. I hopeful I can find some true answers if this is a feasible project?
- Freddy
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It can be done, but make sure the numbers are crunched. I have a buddy that put tubing in a walkway & got the sizing wrong..... it just doesn't put out enough BTU's to do the job. And, yes, it takes a LOT of BTU's to melt snow. The information is out there.
- pintoplumber
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I have a little experience melting snow with an oil boiler.
We built a 24’x40’ garage on the lot next door. I wanted to have radiant heat in the floor. I thought since we’re halfway there let’s put heat in the driveways and sidewalk. This was 1990. I used 1/2” polybutylene on 12” centers. I run a 40/60 mixture of boiler antifreeze and water. I love the garage heat.
When this picture was taken, we had two 20” snows about a week apart. This was the 2nd snow. I think I was running a 1.0 gph nozzle. You’re probably running 20-36 hours during a good snowstorm. You should turn the heat on 4 hours before the snow falls. My antifreeze mix is good to about -20 and it will still circulate to about zero. When it’s that cold I don’t run it. It works best in the 20’s. I have 180’ of sidewalk and 3 driveways from curb to garage. I think I can fire the boiler as high as 1.65 gph but haven’t tried that. Uses a lot of oil just to keep the sidewalk melted. Dennis
We built a 24’x40’ garage on the lot next door. I wanted to have radiant heat in the floor. I thought since we’re halfway there let’s put heat in the driveways and sidewalk. This was 1990. I used 1/2” polybutylene on 12” centers. I run a 40/60 mixture of boiler antifreeze and water. I love the garage heat.
When this picture was taken, we had two 20” snows about a week apart. This was the 2nd snow. I think I was running a 1.0 gph nozzle. You’re probably running 20-36 hours during a good snowstorm. You should turn the heat on 4 hours before the snow falls. My antifreeze mix is good to about -20 and it will still circulate to about zero. When it’s that cold I don’t run it. It works best in the 20’s. I have 180’ of sidewalk and 3 driveways from curb to garage. I think I can fire the boiler as high as 1.65 gph but haven’t tried that. Uses a lot of oil just to keep the sidewalk melted. Dennis
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Start with these guys...
https://www.uponor-usa.com/commercial-radiant-flo ... lting.aspx
https://www.uponor-usa.com/commercial-radiant-flo ... lting.aspx
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Speaking as a NYSDEC certified but unregistered water well driller and pump installer:
To clear up a couple of things for you: you need asphalt or concrete to do this cost effectively and with a high efficiency per ton of heating.capacity with the loops buried in fine mortar sand under the asphalt or buried deeply in a thick continuous reinforced concrete slab made with sand mix concrete to reduce the chance of the tubing becoming damaged.
Before you do anything you should look at a geothermal set up to do this with asphalt as the installation is simpler burying the tubing in fine sand . You can keep the water/alcohol temperature lower and also use the land your property sits on if you have several acres that you can run one continuous loop of black polyethylene pipe in one piece to reduce the need to use an electric polyethylene pipe fusing machine as little as possible.
The heat transfer with asphalt is easier also but your going to burn a lot of coal to do this as well depending strictly on how warm you want the ground to be.
In car washes with concrete or asphalt heated floors the the antifreeze is heated in gas boilers and kept near boiling temperature to maintain the highest rate of ice melting and snow removal in car wash bays and entrance aprons on both sided of a car wash bay or numerous car way bays/stalls.
(my father operated a car wash with heated floors for many years)
If you persue this option and you can bury your geothermal loop on a large section of property that you own
do not let them bury it less than 6 feet deep to maintain a 52 degree ground temperature to maintain the maximum heat exchanging effectiveness for a geothermal system.
Just keep in mind that you will need a higher temperature to do this at all times if you have a small volume of heat transfer medium like non toxic antifreeze or an alcohol mixture.
Geothermal systems for ice melting can be and are used with steam heating and in areas with a high amount of foot traffic like a university campus that heat large amounts of water to make steam and domestic hot water as well.
In Japan they use geothermal heat effectively within areas that have hot springs in the northern island of Hokkaido to melt snow on sidewalks and in snow melting stations to dispose of huge quantities of snow fall in areas of high population density.
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To clear up a couple of things for you: you need asphalt or concrete to do this cost effectively and with a high efficiency per ton of heating.capacity with the loops buried in fine mortar sand under the asphalt or buried deeply in a thick continuous reinforced concrete slab made with sand mix concrete to reduce the chance of the tubing becoming damaged.
Before you do anything you should look at a geothermal set up to do this with asphalt as the installation is simpler burying the tubing in fine sand . You can keep the water/alcohol temperature lower and also use the land your property sits on if you have several acres that you can run one continuous loop of black polyethylene pipe in one piece to reduce the need to use an electric polyethylene pipe fusing machine as little as possible.
The heat transfer with asphalt is easier also but your going to burn a lot of coal to do this as well depending strictly on how warm you want the ground to be.
In car washes with concrete or asphalt heated floors the the antifreeze is heated in gas boilers and kept near boiling temperature to maintain the highest rate of ice melting and snow removal in car wash bays and entrance aprons on both sided of a car wash bay or numerous car way bays/stalls.
(my father operated a car wash with heated floors for many years)
If you persue this option and you can bury your geothermal loop on a large section of property that you own
do not let them bury it less than 6 feet deep to maintain a 52 degree ground temperature to maintain the maximum heat exchanging effectiveness for a geothermal system.
Just keep in mind that you will need a higher temperature to do this at all times if you have a small volume of heat transfer medium like non toxic antifreeze or an alcohol mixture.
Geothermal systems for ice melting can be and are used with steam heating and in areas with a high amount of foot traffic like a university campus that heat large amounts of water to make steam and domestic hot water as well.
In Japan they use geothermal heat effectively within areas that have hot springs in the northern island of Hokkaido to melt snow on sidewalks and in snow melting stations to dispose of huge quantities of snow fall in areas of high population density.
.
- windyhill4.2
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Just to clarify for you, the fact that the ground is in contact with the tubing whether it is buried in concrete or under asphalt or pavers the system is considered geothermal.
Last edited by lzaharis on Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.