looking for a heating professional

 
jrv8984
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Location: lower Schuylkill county, PA
Other Heating: Blaze King Princess

Post by jrv8984 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 12:18 pm

Orwigsburg, lower Schuylkill county area

Ok, so I'm not sure where to post this, please move it if necessary.
You guys were a tremendous help with getting my boiler up and running. Thank you.

So my uncle literally lives across the river from me. It is an old stone house with no insulation, except in the attic. They have a pellet stove insert in their living room that DOESN'T heat their house. They were told that a propane fireplace insert will heat their house. As far as I know, and from what my uncle told me, NO heat loss calculations were completed for the house. Basically told the salesman the size of the house and were told what size stove they need.
I've been telling him that he needs cast iron radiators or cast iron baseboard to heat the house, and that he should use a coal boiler. (He doesn't want the work of coal, even though I told him that with an efm or coal gun, etc it could automatically feed and it could have an auger to remove the ash. He could even have a boiler installed in the garage and piped Into the house.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys install hydronic heating systems and whether or not you install systems using different fuel types.
You could do the heat loss calculations, show them how much it was cost each year using different types of fuel, etc etc.
Suggestions? I would like to give him your contact info.


 
lzaharis
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Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 2:27 pm

<r>One of the first things you should do is become a member of the <URL url="http://www.heatinghelp.com">www.heatinghelp.com</URL> forum-its free to join and look on the list of plumbers in and around Skuylkill Haven that could install coal fired steam and hot water boilers and furnaces and go from there.

You also have to convince him to have a heat loss study done to determine the amount of heat he is losing per square foot of living space by going from room to room, measuring the cubic volume of each room and the basement or crawl space and the square area of each window in each room to come up with a total amount of heat loss per hour on the coldest day of the year. Then he has to decide if he want to reduce the heat loss by improving the insulation and replacing windows and doors.

There are grants available to improve a homes insulation and to replace windows and doors subject to an income verification through his counties home weatherization office
His insurance carrier is the major factor in this as they may require an H stamp for a home boiler used for hot water heat or steam no matter which brand he buys-if he buys a coal stoker.<br/>

Most insurers will not allow a furnace or boiler in a garage of some type unless it is not going to be occupied by a motor vehicle or power equipment like a lawn mower etc. The National Plumbing Code also has strict regulations regarding this where the boiler must be separated by an addition with a block wall and a fire rated steel door along with fire resistant sheet rock.
The other thing is the piping method/type to and from the garage and whether or not he wants a forced air system in the home that will require the use of a heat exchanger in the air plenum.

The best advice I or anyone can give you is to call the EFM, AHS and the Leisure line company and ask them who sells and installs their boilers and furnaces and then contact the dealers individually and ask them to come and give you a 120 day quote for an installation.

He will have to decide how much money he is willing to spend for a coal stoker system versus having insulation installed as well as new windows and doors for the home versus spending no money at all.
The payback for this is immediate where a furnace or boiler system will take longer to have a payback to save money.

There are lot of things to consider with this and at least you have made a first step in this direction.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:09 pm

jrv8984 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 12:18 pm
Orwigsburg, lower Schuylkill county area

Ok, so I'm not sure where to post this, please move it if necessary.
You guys were a tremendous help with getting my boiler up and running. Thank you.

So my uncle literally lives across the river from me. It is an old stone house with no insulation, except in the attic. They have a pellet stove insert in their living room that DOESN'T heat their house. They were told that a propane fireplace insert will heat their house. As far as I know, and from what my uncle told me, NO heat loss calculations were completed for the house. Basically told the salesman the size of the house and were told what size stove they need.
I've been telling him that he needs cast iron radiators or cast iron baseboard to heat the house, and that he should use a coal boiler. (He doesn't want the work of coal, even though I told him that with an efm or coal gun, etc it could automatically feed and it could have an auger to remove the ash. He could even have a boiler installed in the garage and piped Into the house.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys install hydronic heating systems and whether or not you install systems using different fuel types.
You could do the heat loss calculations, show them how much it was cost each year using different types of fuel, etc etc.
Suggestions? I would like to give him your contact info.
Please don't let your uncle read the previous post as it would surely turn him away from even the faintest thought of ever going with coal.
BUT,if he said he wants no part of heating with coal,why push him into doing something he doesn't want to do ?


What heating system did this old house use up to now,b4 adding the pellet stove ?

If he is interested in a coal boiler,an EFM520 would do the job easily.

You could talk to Matt Direnzo,i don't have his contact info.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:22 pm

Nothing is going to be cheap or easy about heating an uninsulated stone house. Studding and insulating the exterior walls would make a huge difference in the heating bills and size of the equipment required, but I am not sure if that would be possible for your uncle.

Heating with propane is probably one of the most expensive ways to heat a home in your area. Coal would be much cheaper on a BTU basis...but if he won't agree to the hands on aspect of coal heat, the savings potential is irrelevant.

 
jrv8984
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Location: lower Schuylkill county, PA
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Post by jrv8984 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:36 pm

He doesn't know what he wants. Just wants the house to be warm. And they want to be lazy like everyone else, I guess. They think that coal is dirty and a boat load of work, I tried explaining to him that it doesn't have to be.

His MIL had the pellet stove installed. Otherwise they have electric baseboard which no longer works.
His live in MIL and wife are the ones pushing for a propane fireplace.
They already have new windows installed in the house. There is no way to add insulation to the inside walls of the house. Solid stone and they don't want to frame it out for insulation.
(My wife and I watched the house for a week over Christmas 5 years ago. There was frost on the bezel around the peep hole of their front door. The place is cold. That pellet stove could never keep the place comfortable.)
He had said about an oil furnace, but that is going to use a ton of fuel.

 
jrv8984
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Location: lower Schuylkill county, PA
Other Heating: Blaze King Princess

Post by jrv8984 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:42 pm

I was just hoping to find someone who works with all types of heating systems (fuel types) figure out the heat loss and could sit down with them and lay it all out there. Instead of a salesman just pitching them their product (unless it's coal 😁).

 
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hotblast1357
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Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Stones walls and refusal to insulate and make place better, point blank it’s going to use a shti load of whatever heat you use. Big stoker boiler with cast iron radiators, or a couple hand fed stoves. Need big radiation to warm up the stone.


 
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windyhill4.2
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Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:51 pm

jrv8984 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:42 pm
I was just hoping to find someone who works with all types of heating systems (fuel types) figure out the heat loss and could sit down with them and lay it all out there. Instead of a salesman just pitching them their product (unless it's coal 😁).
If your uncle is older than 58 yrs . it may not be a good thing to push coal on him,many of the smarter folks of that age bracket are looking to do less work,not more.

Find some u-tube videos of coal boilers in operation for him to watch.

Try to find some local member where he could visit to see a coal boiler in full operation.

 
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hotblast1357
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Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:55 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:51 pm
Find some u-tube videos of coal boilers in operation for him to watch.

Here u go, grab a hot coffee and watch all his videos, many different kinds.



 
jrv8984
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Posts: 191
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Location: lower Schuylkill county, PA
Other Heating: Blaze King Princess

Post by jrv8984 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 5:10 pm

My uncle is only 49. He can come over and watch my S260 run all day long if he wants.
I've been telling him that it is gonna take a lot to heat the house. He isn't the one who wont listen to reason though.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 5:15 pm

jrv8984 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 5:10 pm
My uncle is only 49. He can come over and watch my S260 run all day long if he wants.
I've been telling him that it is gonna take a lot to heat the house. He isn't the one who wont listen to reason though.
I would say that his decision has already been decided by 2 women who know little to nothing about good choices with heating.
They are just looking at what is fashionable.

If your uncle goes against their choice.... he will be miserable.... let them install the propain fire place & then all will be miserable together. :)

 
cabinover
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Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Post by cabinover » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 6:28 pm

I can tell you an LP fireplace is going to be about as expensive as he can get. I deliver LP and it's pretty easy to spot a fireplace user by the frosted up windows and the huge bill every week or two.

Make a couple phone calls to your local LP dealers and ask for their price. You already know the price of coal and electricity in your house. The only other fuel you could check into is fuel oil. Then sit down with Uncle, Aunt, and MIL with the calculator... https://coalpail.com/fuel-comparison-calculator-home-heating

Just ball park a figure to use for comparison, 100 million Btu is the default. Show them the cost difference in fuel, it's huge even at $2.50/gal for LP (and not many people up here see that price I can tell you).

At least that will give them an idea of the differences even if it has no real dollar amount related to their home.
Last edited by cabinover on Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 6:33 pm

Insanity, get some real heat.

 
lzaharis
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Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Sat. Jan. 06, 2018 1:31 pm

jrv8984 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 5:10 pm
My uncle is only 49. He can come over and watch my S260 run all day long if he wants.
I've been telling him that it is gonna take a lot to heat the house. He isn't the one who wont listen to reason though.
================================================================================================
As I said,

You need to go to www.heatinghelp.com and open the "find a contractor" list and you will see more than a handfull of licensed plumbers in and around Skuylkill Haven, PA and they will come by and do a heat loss study for you at no charge.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sat. Jan. 06, 2018 1:46 pm

jrv8984 wrote:
Fri. Jan. 05, 2018 4:42 pm
I was just hoping to find someone who works with all types of heating systems (fuel types) figure out the heat loss and could sit down with them and lay it all out there. Instead of a salesman just pitching them their product (unless it's coal 😁).
Figure out the heat loss.... on a stone house ?? :roll:
Most of us already know that a stone house like that will loose lots of heat.
EFM520 or AA260 or the Brand new DS stoker boiler would handle the heat loss just fine.
Buy big BTU's & be prepared for anything, or as coalnewbie says " overkill is good & more overkill is better" :yes:

Or size a boiler to the exact size that the heat loss study calls for & then start a new thread about "not enough heat" when temps dip to these crazy lows we are experiencing right now.


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