AA130

I will try to get it tonight, but it’s pretty hard, it doesn’t cycle that often especially with these warmer temps.

hotblast1357 wrote: ↑

Mon. May. 21, 2018 10:41 am

I will try to get it tonight, but it’s pretty hard, it doesn’t cycle that often especially with these warmer temps.

And you have 260, which feeds double a 130.

McGiever wrote: ↑

Mon. May. 21, 2018 12:09 pm

which feeds double a 130.

??

2 times 130 equals 260

So only compares to other 260s, not any 130s.

The feed is directly proportional to the amount burned, and for a given fan time the 260 should consume twice what a 130 consumes, but would a 260 actually ash twice as fast as a 130, or would it merely ash twice as often, or twice as long?

It's a 'slippery slope'...

For AAs. the bigger size rolling grate of a 260 moves twice as fast, under a bigger fire column with bigger fan moving more air, but at idle or while dormant the fire just sits and waits to be signaled to start and/or stop the required ashing/feeding. This is a set point and it's hard to state it's relative duration cycle..

Then there is other external 'balance of system' difference too, some not important, but others maybe important. Need we consider different coal sources too?

Don't see ALL these physical component differences to be simply ignored for a level playing field.

Besides all this, looks like his bigger 260, with its given differences stated, is beating the smaller 130s with its lesser idle consumption anyhow, so this seems to reinforce that it's not apples to apples comparision.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Mon. May. 21, 2018 8:26 am

Hotblast1357, what is your 'single' round trip ashing cycle time? Ditto all others, what is this for your AA or AHS?

1 minute and 36 seconds.

96 seconds total.

Not double.

Man, you guys have been at it hard on the ashing debate!

For what it's worth, I will re-post the Axeman Anderson 130M ashing calculations here for reference.

On the Axeman Anderson 130M the ashing cycle can be calculated by determining the auger RPM and how many ashing teeth are turned per revolution.

Motor runs at 1725 RPM, drive pulley is 3.5", driven pulley is 3". This gives us a 1:1.2 ratio and 1012.5 RPM to the gearbox.

The gearbox is a 50:1 ratio so the output is 40.25 RPM. The gearbox sprocket has 9 teeth and the auger sprocket has 45 teeth giving a 5:1 ratio.

40.25 RPM divided by 5 equals 8.05 RPM for the auger. The auger has a cam lobe on it that pushes the ashing lever down once per auger revolution. The bottom of the ashing lever pushes a 44 tooth sprocket a few teeth at a time.

The 44 tooth sprocket is attached to a rod that internally moves the grate back and forth. A normal setting is 2 or 3 teeth, some may use up to 4 teeth.

8.05 RPM times 2 teeth equals 16.1 ashing teeth per minute. To go one full cycle of 44 teeth is 2.73 minutes (164 seconds).

3 teeth would be 24.15 teeth per minute and 1.82 minutes (109 seconds).

Sounds like the AHS boilers ash a little faster than the Axeman.

===================================================================

After 9 days we have used up 268 pounds of Rice coal, 29.8 pounds per day. 24.3 hours of fan run time equals 11.0 pounds per hour. I suspect we are still having puff-backs, although I have not heard any. The boiler and auger are getting a thick coating of fly ash. The stove pipe is all sealed up. The only place for fly ash to puff out of is where the stove pipe connects to the Pope's Hat on top of the boiler. This weekend we will be filling the barrel with whatever is left in the bottom of the bin. This should be mostly Pea coal with some Rice mixed in. -Don

I hope the pea puts an end to your puffs.

From the parts list the AA130 is to have the same size pulleys for gearbox drive and driven, both are to be 3.45".
Note: The fan pulleys are 4.95" for drive and 3.05" for driven.

BTW: The AA260 uses a 25:1 ratio gearbox and uses all different size pulleys.

I attempted below to show the revised numbers...

On the Axeman Anderson 130M the ashing cycle can be calculated by determining the auger RPM and how many ashing teeth are turned per revolution.

Motor runs at 1725 RPM, drive pulley is 3.5", driven pulley is 3" 3.5". This gives us a 1:1.2 1:1 ratio and 1012.5 1725 RPM to the gearbox.

The gearbox is a 50:1 ratio so the output is 40.25 34.5 RPM. The gearbox sprocket has 9 teeth and the auger sprocket has 45 teeth giving a 5:1 ratio.

40.25 34.5 RPM divided by 5 equals 8.05 6.9 RPM for the auger. The auger has a cam lobe on it that pushes the ashing lever down once per auger revolution. The bottom of the ashing lever pushes a 44 tooth sprocket a few teeth at a time.

The 44 tooth sprocket is attached to a rod that internally moves the grate back and forth. A normal setting is 2 or 3 teeth, some may use up to 4 teeth.

8.05 6.9 RPM times 2 teeth equals 16.1 13.8 ashing teeth per minute. To go one full cycle of 44 teeth is 2.73 3.19 minutes (164 194 seconds).

3 teeth would be 24.15 20.7 teeth per minute and 1.82 2.13 minutes (109 128 seconds).

So to bring my AHS in line with an AA, somehow I need to get from 105 seconds of round trip ashing to 128 seconds. A speed reduction of 18%.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Thu. May. 24, 2018 6:03 am

So to bring my AHS in line with an AA, somehow I need to get from 105 seconds of round trip ashing to 128 seconds. A speed reduction of 18%.

Tell us more of the specifics of the grate-motor to see what works best to control the speed.
I am pretty sure it would be a "gearmotor", but need more info.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Thu. May. 24, 2018 6:03 am

So to bring my AHS in line with an AA, somehow I need to get from 105 seconds of round trip ashing to 128 seconds. A speed reduction of 18%.

I wouldn't change a thing Larry. You use half as much coal as I use and you get better fuel mileage than just about anybody else. Maybe I should speed my ashing up?

-Don

The risk of puffback will increase with the feedrate increase.

McGiever wrote: ↑

Thu. May. 24, 2018 2:04 am

From the parts list the AA130 is to have the same size pulleys for gearbox drive and driven, both are to be 3.45".
Note: The fan pulleys are 4.95" for drive and 3.05" for driven.

Thanks for the revised numbers and the tip about the parts list. It's interesting that they used fractional numbers for the pulleys. I've never heard of a 3.45" pulley before, only 3.5".

For the record, this 130M had a 3.5" pulley on the motor and a 3" on the gearbox before I changed the motor and the pulleys. This was very likely the original factory set because this unit is relatively new, 1991. I guess at some point during the production life they felt the need to speed the auger up a little.

This unit is currently running the opposite pulley set up, 3" on the motor and 3.5" on the gearbox. This makes the auger and ashing a bit slower than normal.

-Don