Thinking about a coal boiler.

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lincolnmania
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Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:01 am

as some of you may know i moved to my mothers house in berks county to be with her and take care of her needs and the house. i am an only child, so there is no other family member to help out.
i installed a hot air stoker in the basement and i have it piped into the forced air oil heater. it works well.
the problem is it is a pig on coal. yes i was warned i know. did not think it was going to be this bad lol.
i am burning 60-130 pounds a day.
i am thinking of adding some hydronic coils but they are not cheap.....three of them and i can buy a used coal boiler project.

i thought to myself after reading some posts here why not get a stoker boiler and rebuild it?

my basement is not very high, that is the problem.
it is 71" to the floor joists. then i would like to set the boiler on 3.5" high cement blocks. that leaves 67.5" height. how tall is a efm 520?

also door is only 30.5" wide and 69" high, there are a few steps. the oil tank was 5' long and barely fit.

is there a coalpail boiler lifting team on standby?

are there different height efm's like in a lowboy?......my oil furnace is a lowboy.


 
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Scottscoaled
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Location: Malta N.Y.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Post by Scottscoaled » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:28 am

Maybe you want to try a 350 instead. Pretty close to the same performance but in a smaller package. Several inches shorter and in the width. They are more reasonable too.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:39 am

What makes you you think a boiler will reduce your consumption? Is the house a leaker or your appliance inefficient?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:49 am

Any idea as to how much oil was used other yrs ?
That should help give a better idea of the needed BTU's.

 
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:49 am

Height wise, you should be OK. Some of the taller boilers my not fit, like an EFM HiBoy. An EFM 520 boiler is 26" tall plus the base 24", plus the jacket 2", is about 52" high total. Setting it on 4" blocks brings it to 56" high. Leaving you 15" for plumbing, that should be enough. The boiler is about 25" wide.

Van Wert 400 and 600 are 50.5" tall with the covers on. BairMatic BMC500 is 46.5" tall. The VA600 is 27.5" wide and will squeeze through a 30" doorway. The VA400 and Bairmatic are narrower. Losch, Yellow Flame and Keystoker all make boilers that will fit this application.

How big is the house you want to heat? What is the BTU rating of the oil furnace?

In my opinion, the coal stoker boiler is the way to go. Putting coils into a stove for hydronic heat is problematic at best.

-Don

 
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:53 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:39 am
What makes you you think a boiler will reduce your consumption? Is the house a leaker or your appliance inefficient?
That is a good question. With a central heating boiler most of us see spikes up to 120-130 pounds per day on really cold days. That being said, the boiler does a much better job of heating the whole house and DHW than any stove will. It is also easier to tend than a stove.

-Don

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:58 am

How much house are you heating? How well is it insulated and protected from cold air intrusion?


 
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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 9:16 am

lincolnmania wrote:
Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:01 am
i installed a hot air stoker in the basement and i have it piped into the forced air oil heater. it works well.
the problem is it is a pig on coal. yes i was warned i know. did not think it was going to be this bad lol.
i am burning 60-130 pounds a day.
What kind of coal stoker is it ?
Why/What were you warned about that particular unit ?

Is this unit an actual hot air furnace ?
Or, is it just a stoker that someone added duct work to it ?
If the unit is a pig on coal, where is that burnt coal heat going ?
Is it shedding lots of heat into the basement & the walls are soaking the heat away ?
Is the stack temp extremely high ?

I am not trying to convince you to stay with what you have ..
BUT... depending what the problem is,the boiler might get labeled a coal pig too. :)
Last edited by windyhill4.2 on Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 9:16 am

Maybe the "coal pig" is just doing the same job as the "oil pig" did b4 ?

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 10:23 am

OP states a hot air stoker. I'm assuming a furnace, not a stove.

Perhaps the OP can enlighten us on his install with a link to a thread about it or some facts.

 
Qtown1835
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Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 11:10 am

60# a day sounds reasonable unless it's heating a 500sf house. I've personally never hit the 100#/day club, but even still, it's cheaper than paying for the same BTUs in oil. BTU in>BTU out, coal is not magic

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 11:20 am

lincolnmania wrote:
Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 8:01 am
am thinking of adding some hydronic coils but they are not cheap..
If yer thinking of just adding a few water coils inside fire box to try and pump heat around, it will turn out to be a huge disappointment. In my opinion, they aren't designed to work that way and don't absorb enough BTUs to heat a room with. They are only good at warming a tank of water over a long period of time. I would highly advise against this direction of strategy.

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 11:58 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 9:16 am
What kind of coal stoker is it ?
Why/What were you warned about that particular unit ?

Is this unit an actual hot air furnace ?
Or, is it just a stoker that someone added duct work to it ?
If the unit is a pig on coal, where is that burnt coal heat going ?
Is it shedding lots of heat into the basement & the walls are soaking the heat away ?
Is the stack temp extremely high ?

I am not trying to convince you to stay with what you have ..
BUT... depending what the problem is,the boiler might get labeled a coal pig too. :)
i call it a pig because i have to fill it twice a day.
used up my savings buying the coal and the stove, trying to help mom out.
it's a stoker stove, has a hookup for heat ducting.
the basement is sucking up the heat
stack temp is good, i can put my hand on the stove pipe. draft is good.
it's like 78 in the basement, 74 downstairs (momma loves it!!) and 64-70 upstairs. the colder it gets, the hotter the basement gets and colder the second floor gets (my domain lol)
my buddy that is tending my efm (not for long he's moving in a month) said he is using 60 lbs a day to heat the shop (that place was huge) once he is gone i could care less what the rest of them do to the efm.....not my problem.

i had made several posts in the hot air stoker section but did not get a reply.

Attachments

reading1.jpg

this is the stove, not ducted yet in the pic.

.JPG | 58.9KB | reading1.jpg

 
lincolnmania
Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: Birdsboro PA.
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post by lincolnmania » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 12:03 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 11:20 am
If yer thinking of just adding a few water coils inside fire box to try and pump heat around, it will turn out to be a huge disappointment. In my opinion, they aren't designed to work that way and don't absorb enough BTUs to heat a room with. They are only good at warming a tank of water over a long period of time. I would highly advise against this direction of strategy.
thanks for the honest answer, i think someone here had trouble with the coils rotting thru and dripping a few yrs back.

the guy that sells the coils contradicts himself. on the website it's a lifetime warranty, but when i talked to him it was five years.

i was not sure this would work besides heating hot water. i may still do that with a smaller single coil.

was looking at the price of a used boiler just buying two of the larger coils. that is why i made this thread.

thanks again.

 
Qtown1835
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Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 12:12 pm

My basement ate a huge amount of BTU uninsulated. You may want to consider insulating the basement instead of investing in another heating appliance since you have a new 1 already. Idk how big you basement is but it will be cheaper than buying a used boiler and piping it in. Besides, trying to sell the furnace now you will take a hit on the depreciated sale price.

2" Rmax (R13) runs about $1/sqft.


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