EFM 520 Highboy

Two supplies into one pipe

Well, I am not in any way a steam expert but even I know that is not a drop header. I'm pretty sure you need one for a steam system to send dry steam to the radiators.
One thing I am very confused about is that pipe that goes strait into the concrete floor.

-Don

Those are the wet returns that come through the concrete. Which are surprisingly leaking haha

Don, a drop header is not mandatory. It is used when there is not enough room over the boiler for the minimum amount of vertical piping, or for drier steam.

The steam chest in a 520 Highboy is so much larger than a modern oil or gas boiler, I can't see a drop header being necessary unless there is a space constraint.

The pipe in the concrete is a return, and I would not expect it to be much good at this point.

hardcoalhardcore wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 11:10 am

Those are the wet returns that come through the concrete. Which are surprisingly leaking haha

So what is your plan for the leaking returns?

I realize that you are into this early but I want to recommend to you that you
look at the www.heatinghelp.com forum and become a member as membership on
the forum is free. They also have a list of plumbing contractors that are specialized
steam plumbing.

If I have not mentioned this before you should invest in 2 paper back books;

The first is WE GOT STEAM, and the second one is GREENING STEAM.

You can purchase them from the author directly at www.dansbooks.com

Dan Holohan has written many books on plumbing as it relates to HVAC work
as he grew up in this business working for his father, as a B+G tech Representative,
a TACO representative and then as plumbing and heating trouble shooter on Long Island
and also writing books about heating and cooling.

The fastest way to remove the busing is to weld a sacrificial pipe nipple in to the bushing but
you could use a sawzall at Rob did.

I would check the list of plumbers that Dan Holohan has on the Heating Help forum as there
are more than a handful of steam plumbers that work in Pennsylvania and I am sure they will
look at your system.

You may not need a lot of physical work to bring your coal stoker in to the system by just piping it in
parallel with the current steam system plumbing and if you need to remove that bushing they can
weld in a sacrificial pipe nipple or heat the bushing up with a acetylene torch to get it out.


Have you thought at all about leaving the oil boiler in place and just adding a cross connection to the
existing steam boiler piping above the boiler to enable to you use a drop header and take advantage
of the existing piping without fighting with the reducer bushing in the EFM?

If you order those 2 books from Dans books and perhaps the other books on steam heat that he has written
you will be well ahead of it all as you will gain a lifetimes wealth of knowledge from Dan's experience in plumbing and heating.

Dan makes his writing fun to read and easy to understand for both the layperson and experienced plumber
and he also describes the history of plumbing and steam heating in his writing as well.

I have 4 of his paper back books and they also helped me very much with my hot water heating system and I have
been using 80 pounds per day to heat my old house.

I'm definitely going to be ordering Dan's books. You're not the first person to mention him. My initial plan was to run the oil and coal boiler together. But wanting to do this as cheap as possible I'm going to harvest all the controls from the oil boiler.

I'm going to run new pipe above ground where the returns are buried to eliminate the leak.

From what I've read online each boiler header should be built to the manufacturer's specs. What size header does EFM recommend? Can I get away with a 2" header?? Cutting the bushing scares me because if I mess the threads up on the boiler its a 1,000lb piece of scrap metal.

I believe the general rule is that the header should have cross sectional area equal to the sum of the mains. In your case, you would need 3" from the boiler to the mains.

Removing that bushing is not a big deal for someone that has done it before. It may thread out if you can have someone hold the boiler, but it will certainly come out in pieces if you cut it.

hardcoalhardcore wrote: ↑

Sun. Dec. 24, 2017 3:38 pm

I'm definitely going to be ordering Dan's books. You're not the first person to mention him. My initial plan was to run the oil and coal boiler together. But wanting to do this as cheap as possible I'm going to harvest all the controls from the oil boiler.

I'm going to run new pipe above ground where the returns are buried to eliminate the leak.

From what I've read online each boiler header should be built to the manufacturer's specs. What size header does EFM recommend? Can I get away with a 2" header?? Cutting the bushing scares me because if I mess the threads up on the boiler its a 1,000lb piece of scrap metal.

===========================================================================================================


Hello hardcoalhardcore,

Can you purchase dry ice locally? If so buy 2 blocks and lay one or both of them on top of the bushing covering it with a heavy towel or old blanket to help freeze it for 4-6 hours and as a result force it to shrink and then you should be able to remove it.

If the dry ice does not work I would wait until Tuesday and call the folks at EFM and ask if you can still run steam successfully with the bushing installed as is. If not sacrificing a 3 inch close nipple after its heliarc welded to the bushing is the only way you will get it out without damaging the tapping-short of using a sawzall as Rob did. If you do use a sawzall you will need to drop a small magnet on a string in the steam chest to get the shavings out if at all possible OR use one of those magnetic pickup tools on a long flexible coil.

You may want to leave the oil boiler and the old steam controls in place as you may end up damaging them trying to remove them and you will have less plumbing to do tying in the two boilers with pipe, unions, nipples, elbows, one or more Tee's and the ball valves to switch from one boiler to the other if needed since your already planning on running new pipe to replace the leaking ones in the concrete.

You have to think about your insurance as well as it may affect your obtaining a claim for an insurance loss due to the use of the old controls if it happens. you should check with the local plumbing inspector to see if that is allowed in the National Plumbing Code as it also relates to your counties plumbing code.

I am not trying to spend your money, but its better to be safe than sorry with regard to steam controls.

Can I just put a 2" nipple into the bushing and then thread on a 2" to 3" coupling?

NO!

As Rob said, cutting the bushings out isn't a big deal. They are iron so they cut pretty easy. If you use a sawzall only cut about 2/3rds of the way through, then finish with a plumber hacksaw or just a bare hacksaw blade. Sawing the last part by hand gives you a lot of control so you won't damage the threads in the boiler.

Once your cut gets close to the threads start whack'in it with a large hammer and chisel. I cheat, I use my air chisel, it's a lot faster.

Merry Christmas!

-Don

Block that boiler between 2 of something substantial ,put a long pipe on a big heavy duty wrench,have someone pulling hard on the pipe/wrench & then take a 1.5 - 3# hammer & hit that fitting HARD.... repeat until it breaks loose.

It is almost ridiculous how easy they come out with a saws all and cutting a wedge out. Tapping the wedge with a hammer. Hit it easy and when the wedge breaks loose, you can just pry it out with your fingers. Don't worry about cutting it so close to the threads. It's not necessary. I do them all the time.

Can I use an Intermatic C8865 timer for my set up? How would I wire it to my thermostat?

You can, but it won't work like the one that came with the EFM originally. The original had a transformer and a relay that allowed the thermostat to turn the stoker on for heat calls. I am sure if you called around you could find one of the original timers. The ones I have seen were made by Honeywell. You could buy a brand new Will-Burt model 34170 timer from EFM, but they are very expensive.

If it were me, I would use a fan-center relay and the C8865 timer.

Here is an example of a fan center relay.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-R8239A1052- ... des-R8222B