Recommendations On Converting to Coal Boiler

 
hick7373
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Post by hick7373 » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 1:56 pm

Hello,
I have a 1890's two story farm house(3700 sq.ft) that is currently heated by a single pipe steam oil boiler. The house does have replacement windows along with Storm doors. I would like to install an EFM520, but looking at the specs I'm not sure if it would be enough.

My current boiler is rated at 767sq.ft. of steam at 2.10 G.P.H. of heating oil.

I have measured the radiators in the house and I only come to 532 sq.ft. of radiation surface.

I know the current boiler was sized off of the original, but would the original have been that grossly oversized?

If a EFM520 will work, can I convert a hot water boiler to steam?

I have also considered an AA260 or AHS260 would they be a better choice?

I would like to stay with an auger fed boiler, and I like the simplicity of the EFM520, hence my reasoning for leaning that way, but I don't want to buy one and find out I made the wrong choice. Thank you for the help!
Last edited by Richard S. on Mon. Dec. 04, 2017 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title, please use descriptive titles. Thanks


 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 2:37 pm

Any of them will work well and yes, if they are hot water boilers, they can be converted to steam. The three you mentioned all are H stamped and are rated to 15# of steam. The AA and AHS are shorter so they have an advantage if height is an issue.

 
lzaharis
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Post by lzaharis » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 2:52 pm

Good afternoon,

Generally the old steam boilers were always over sized. IF you do not mind me suggesting this I would like you to become a member of the www.heatinghelp.com forum Dan Holohans daughter Erin is managing the heating help forum for her father and the forum is a huge source of information for the layperson and the experienced plumber alike and I can tell you that Dan Holohan was a huge help to me with my issues dealing with the keystoker KAA-4-1 that I own (2 sets of bad digital controls).

When you visit Dan's web site you can purchase his self published books directly through the forum and there is no middle man.

If you do not mind me making a suggestion I would like to see you purchase copies of "The Lost Art Of Steam Heating",
"We Got Steam" and Greening Steam".

Dan travels around the country holding steam heating seminars as well as for other types of heating.

Dan makes the books he writes fun to read for both the layperson and the experienced plumber taking about heating history with steam and the types of heat and also taking from his 30 plus years of experience as a plumbers helper when he was a young boy working for his father , as technical sales rep. for B&G and Taco, and as a heating system trouble shooter on long Island and in New York City and other places.

He provides the reader with a huge amount of detail especially with system sizing for steam and hydronic heat and the history that goes with it and it is very easy to understand what he is explaining to you as the reader.

I have four of Dan's books Pumping Away, Classic Hydronics, What Hydronics Taught Dan Holohan and How Come" which is a very good history book about heating.

I hope this helps you.

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 5:42 pm

The current boiler could have been sized to the DHW load of about 6.0 gpm, which in the olden days would run a shower in real time.

I believe the OP would be inviting problems by downsizing to a 520 for an attached load of 537 sf. Basically, if the unit didn't maintain an optimal burn at its full functional output capacity, you wouldn't be able to build a positive steam pressure, and the system would be difficult or impossible to control. I believe the AHS 260 is only slightly more powerful; the best bet from those listed would be the AA 260. EFM 700/900 and Van Wert VA 800/1200 also come to mind as auger-fed options with suitable power.

Mike

 
hick7373
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Post by hick7373 » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 7:03 pm

Thank you for the info so far, and i forgot to mention that the boiler doesn't heat the DHW.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 8:15 pm

hick7373 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 1:56 pm

I have measured the radiators in the house and I only come to 532 sq.ft. of radiation surface.
If you took the time to measure the radiators, you have already put more time into it than most contractors. Your current oil boiler could have easily been sized based on the width of the basement door. I went through that in my Grandmother's Victorian house - the oil boiler in there was large enough to heat a small school.

The boiler size depends on the amount of steam radiation (which you know), any additional load you want to add, and your comfort level regarding how tightly the boiler is sized to the load from the first two items. If you want to add your domestic hot water load to the boiler, or put a hot water heating loop on it (for a garage, addition, etc), you need to make an allowance for that.

Opinions will vary on this, but if it were my house, I would put an EFM DF520 in it and make sure the steam mains were well insulated. If you want a little more breathing room, the boilers that Mike mentioned are all fine choices - and Keystoker makes steam boilers as well.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 9:50 pm

I think the Axeman/AHS design has a big advantage in the single pipe steam deal. They run with the fire right against the water jacket wall, the response time for a few tenths of a pound of pressure is phenomenal. I need to find a link for the Townsend thread for ya.


 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 9:54 pm

OK, here you go. Lot of good stuff in here, single pipe steam. The boiler only ran a minute to satisfy the thermostat, monster old house.

New (to Me) Axeman 260

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 10:15 pm

The near boiler piping is as important as the boiler itself.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 10:16 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 9:54 pm
OK, here you go. Lot of good stuff in here, single pipe steam. The boiler only ran a minute to satisfy the thermostat, monster old house.

New (to Me) Axeman 260
A little over a month ago that 260 was listed for sale. The listing has expired, but the boiler might still be available. If a 260 is what he decides to go with, I can't imagine finding a nicer one than the one featured in that thread.

 
hick7373
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Post by hick7373 » Tue. Nov. 28, 2017 12:18 am

I just finished reading Townsend's thread on his Axeman 260, WOW that mans work is impressive to say the least. I believe he said he was at 845sq.ft of surface area, compared to my 532sq.ft.
I'm curious if there would be any issues by not being able to put a heavy demand on the boiler from time to time?
I hadn't planned on switching our DHW to the boiler, but I could to increase the demand if it would be beneficial.
Once again thank you for all of the help and input

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Tue. Nov. 28, 2017 5:50 am

What cheaper way do you have to heat your DHW?

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Nov. 28, 2017 6:26 am

Rob R. wrote:
Mon. Nov. 27, 2017 10:16 pm
A little over a month ago that 260 was listed for sale. The listing has expired, but the boiler might still be available. If a 260 is what he decides to go with, I can't imagine finding a nicer one than the one featured in that thread.
I sent Steve a text to see if it was sold. I'll post up the answer when I get it. Be worth buying just for the pressure gauge! :D

Axemans are like draft horses, they live for the load. No load, instant coma.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Nov. 28, 2017 7:04 am

Still for sale, waiting for price.

EDIT:
OK, Got it. He wants $3K. I think he paid that for it and then converted everything. New DHW flange style mount, new hot water coil. Every part in it is new, grate rollers, wear rings, rubber bumpers, controls, new electric motor, he even replaced every bolt. He's giving it away. Located in East Hampton, CT. Ready to rock and roll.

 
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Nov. 28, 2017 8:46 am

I didn't hesitate to pick the AA 260 from the original list, but I'm going to stop short of saying $3k from a private party is "giving it away", or that this unit has big advantages over other units in making steam. Many people who bought coal equipment years ago are finding they can't get anywhere near the prices they paid, even for units in good/refurbed condition. FO and NG prices have been comparatively low and a lot of coal equipment has been taken out of service, putting downward pressure on prices across the board. That 260 was taken out of service and replaced with an oil burner. I believe it was first advertised for sale more than a year ago.

IIRC from the thread, much of the fine performance of this unit in service resulted from careful attention to issues like near-boiler piping and mainline vents, which would help performance with basically any boiler. I've used big boilers from other manufacturers - EFM, HB Smith, Pacific Steel and others - to make steam with coal, and I think the main boiler issues are having abundant capacity and a good heat exchanger. I believe AA started up in the 1940's, when steam-by-coal was very common. If the boiler itself had some magic properties for making steam, it has had 70 years to displace the others, but AFAIK that hasn't happened. I'd certainly agree that the people who use them generally seem very happy with them.

Mike


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