S260 1st start house not heating up

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jrv8984
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Post by jrv8984 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 2:13 am

Started my used s260 for the 1st time. Completely new heating system. 2-taco circs in parallel pumping away from the boiler (125' one way into the house) to a supply manifold, to cast iron radiators/indirect WH back to return manifold, then back to the boiler. If that makes sense.

So if I open up unused ports in the return manifold and dump water I can get the radiators to start to warm up. But that's the only way they will warm up. Then you go out to the boiler room and touch the return line and it feels cold.
In my mind, it's like there's a valve closed on the return line (both are open) stopping water from flowing to the boiler.
The only thing that I can come up with is that the Caleffi boiler protection valve won't allow return water to flow through to the boiler. ( Supply pipe to the protection valve from boiler is hot, and pipe from valve to boiler is hot, but the return from manifolds to boiler side is not)

I can't figure out what the problem is. I'll try to take pictures or draw a schematic tomorrow. Just spent 40 hrs awake working on trying to get this to heat the house. Need sleep.
THANKS


 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 4:49 am

Are your circulators installed in the correct flow direction?

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:25 am

It seems as if your tandem circulators may be deadheading (delivering zero GPM flow) due to too going up against too much friction head present within the long loop. I believe that you can nigh on double the flow, but not raise the inherent friction head imposed characteristics by series ganging two circulators. If that is the case, you will need to install a circulator (or circulators) with higher rated head capacity. Either that or you still have air in the loop that needs to be purged out.

Which Taco circulators do you have running in series? 007's (for example) are relatively low head circulators. With the built in check valve they will hit zero GPM flow when pumping into about 9 feet of friction head, and their curve midrange (where they run most optimally) is at about 6.5 ft. of system friction head. Pump curves generally only show flow characteristics for the case of no built in check valve. Subtract about 0.75 ft of head at all points on the pump curve for the case of an installed internal flow check and draw a new curve line below the factory provided curve line to get a more likely flow vs. friction head picture for the case of the installed check. And if both circulators have built in flow checks installed, you may need to subtract 1.5 ft of head.
Last edited by lsayre on Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:39 am

jrv8984 wrote:
Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 2:13 am
The only thing that I can come up with is that the Caleffi boiler protection valve won't allow return water to flow through to the boiler.
Why did you even bother with this thing?

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:41 am

It would help if you could post pictures of your piping, or at least a diagram.
Caleffi boiler protection valve
If you do not have that installed correctly, it could certainly be your problem. Not sure why you are even using that to begin with.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:42 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 5:39 am
Why did you even bother with this thing?
Is it intended to prevent boiler "shock"? That is far more of a concern for cast iron than for steel.

What is the cut-off temperature for your boiler protection valve (wherein the available options seem to be 115, 130, 140, and 160 degrees F.)? How does one ever get water to return to the boiler if it goes below the cut-off temperature? Is there a bypass?

 
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coaledsweat
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 7:13 am

It's designed to protect non-condensing boilers from flue gas condensation.

https://www.caleffi.com/usa/en-us/blog/how-do-i-c ... tion-valve


 
jrv8984
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Post by jrv8984 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 8:13 am

Taco VR1816 circulators. Not using the internal check valve, using flow checks. Facing the correct direction. When I open the the unused valves on the manifolds I get a ton of water, pressure gauge holds around 20psi.

This is a constant circulation system.

Cast iron radiators w/ Caleffi TRV's

1.25" pex-al-pex from boiler to house manifolds, 3/4" to radiators. 16" of closed cell spray foam surrounding the underground run.

140 degrees for the protection valve. No bypass, but it's sounding like a good idea, or maybe ripping it out. Installed facing the correct direction.

I hooked up a garden hose on the return manifold bypass the return manifold. Pushing water towards the boiler. Unseated the flow checks that are before the protection valve and ran another hose outside. I'm not pushing any air out that I can see.

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 8:40 am

Really sounds like that protection valve, u don’t need it, especially with a constant circulation system.

 
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Post by David... » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 8:45 am

A picture of the valve would be a very big help.

David

 
jrv8984
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Post by jrv8984 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 9:08 am

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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 9:13 am

What in the world...?

I see three pumps?

First pic, on the right looks like the return, I see a ball valve closed?

Are you pumping in return?

Why would you put the two pumps in like that instead of just one correct size pump?

Where is your feed from top of boiler?

Do u have a bypass between feed and return also??

 
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Post by jrv8984 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 9:15 am

3rd circulator is for the garage temporarily

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 9:17 am

Ok first shut off that bypass that you have connecting the feed and return.

 
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Post by jrv8984 » Thu. Nov. 09, 2017 9:17 am

All valves are open


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