Difference between a Keystoker KA6 and KFA

 
Olllotj
Member
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu. Sep. 04, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Western NY 14141
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KB-8
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
Other Heating: Utica Propane Hot Water

Post by Olllotj » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 7:28 am

Nice work on the exhaust adapter!

Are you going to use a bypass loop? Keystoker has a pretty good diagram, and even some updated diagrams for dual boilers.


 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 8:09 am

If you use a cross instead of a tee on the top of that supply riser, you can reduce it down with a bushing and would not have to worry about the well bottoming out.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Everflow-BMBU1123-1-1 ... ex-Bushing

 
memco man
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Location: vermont
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 KA-6 Keystoker
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Tarms 504
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska liberty
Hand Fed Coal Stove: jotul NR 507, crane coal cooker 44, crane 404, chubby w/blower, chubby w/out blower, franco blege 10-475 Montgomery ward laundry stove Moore's Brother seventeen circulator stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
Other Heating: harman p68, elmtree,harthstone,new mack

Post by memco man » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 3:55 pm

Thank you Rob and Olliojt , I am going to have a bypass loop that is what that abortion of brass is that I tool a picture of I think what Rob suggested will be a lot better than what I was trying to do. I just got back from looking at stove pipe the price did not surprise me to much but what did catch me off guard what the price of a (BMD) they wanted $90.00 for one is that the going price for a damper ? If so WOW.

Thanks again for you help
Bill M.M.

 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 5:17 pm

MM, barometric dampers are not cheap but $90 sounds a bit high. That might be an "M" type damper, they are more expensive than the "RC" type. I would recommend going with the "RC" type. Not only do they cost less but a few members have had problems with the "M" type.

No sense in paying more for something that could cause problems. Here's an 8" "RC" for 48 bucks.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-8-RC-8 ... SgEALw_wcB

-Don

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 8:08 pm

It seems the issue of the "M" type is that they are not the better choice if you are going to install in in a factory "tee".

The "M" likes a longer "throat" and is sold that way with a "collar".
You will not get it with the factory tee...there is no flaw other than improper application of a fine product.

Image

 
User avatar
nepacoal
Member
Posts: 1696
Joined: Wed. Nov. 21, 2012 7:49 am
Location: Coal Country
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sun. Feb. 25, 2018 8:19 pm

My type M was installed in the collar it came with and worked great for almost a year. Then it started sticking closed and I just couldn't figure out why/where it was sticking. Cleaned it a few times thinking it might be dirty but it never worked right again. I sure do miss the ease and precision of the type M adjustment. The RC is working so far in the same collar.

 
memco man
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Location: vermont
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 KA-6 Keystoker
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Tarms 504
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska liberty
Hand Fed Coal Stove: jotul NR 507, crane coal cooker 44, crane 404, chubby w/blower, chubby w/out blower, franco blege 10-475 Montgomery ward laundry stove Moore's Brother seventeen circulator stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
Other Heating: harman p68, elmtree,harthstone,new mack

Post by memco man » Thu. Mar. 01, 2018 10:30 pm

Thank you everyone for your help, Don that is a much better price. I hope to pick up the cross tomorrow and get it plumed in this week end and order a damper and draft gauge from the supplyhouse I hope that everyone is having a good week and thanks again for your help you guys are the best.

Bill M.M.


 
User avatar
tikigeorge
Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed. Jun. 11, 2008 12:07 am
Location: Phillipsburg NJ
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6

Post by tikigeorge » Wed. Mar. 14, 2018 9:35 pm

Make sure it is the correct size for your house. I have had my KA-6 for 9 years. VERY satisfied!

 
memco man
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Location: vermont
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 KA-6 Keystoker
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Tarms 504
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska liberty
Hand Fed Coal Stove: jotul NR 507, crane coal cooker 44, crane 404, chubby w/blower, chubby w/out blower, franco blege 10-475 Montgomery ward laundry stove Moore's Brother seventeen circulator stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
Other Heating: harman p68, elmtree,harthstone,new mack

Post by memco man » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 3:24 pm

Good after noon everyone I am sorry about the long delay I got really busy with a whole lot of other things and to put the boiler on the back burner so to speak I started to work on it a couple of days ago and got the two boilers tied together now all I have to do is wire it up which I have no ideal how to but I think that with your help and some diagrams I can get her done I hope that I piped it right I tied the feed from the stoker into the return of the oil boiler I figured that if there is any heat loss it would go into the house I have seen where people have taken the feed from the stoker and put it into the feed line of the oil boiler which makes science because you would be heating less water not sure which is the best way I will post more pictures later

I hope that everyone had a good summer

M.M

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 7:43 pm

memco man wrote:
Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 3:24 pm
Good after noon everyone I am sorry about the long delay I got really busy with a whole lot of other things and to put the boiler on the back burner so to speak I started to work on it a couple of days ago and got the two boilers tied together now all I have to do is wire it up which I have no ideal how to but I think that with your help and some diagrams I can get her done I hope that I piped it right I tied the feed from the stoker into the return of the oil boiler I figured that if there is any heat loss it would go into the house I have seen where people have taken the feed from the stoker and put it into the feed line of the oil boiler which makes science because you would be heating less water not sure which is the best way I will post more pictures later

I hope that everyone had a good summer

M.M



===========================================================================================================

SO, what your saying is you have plumbed the boilers in "series" where the pressure side of the stoker into the sump of the oil boiler.
Are you using the same chimney and plan on just removing the oil burner flue pipe and replacing it with the stokers flue pipe?

Which boiler has the circulator(s)? where is the steel compression tank/bladder tank? Both boilers have to be tied into the single
steel compression tank or bladder tank OR both boilers should have a separate airs coop automatic air vent and bladder tank/steel compression tank with an airtrol valve and Inline Air Separator.

Typically a pair of boilers are tied in a "series parallel" piping set up with each of the boilers plumbed to work, isolate and bypass each other completely with a separate aquastats and high limit controls as well as dump loops when one or the other boiler is used. The thing is that you will lose heat up the oil burner flue stack when the coal stoker is running.

I hope you can upload more photos when you have time.

 
memco man
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Location: vermont
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 KA-6 Keystoker
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Tarms 504
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska liberty
Hand Fed Coal Stove: jotul NR 507, crane coal cooker 44, crane 404, chubby w/blower, chubby w/out blower, franco blege 10-475 Montgomery ward laundry stove Moore's Brother seventeen circulator stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
Other Heating: harman p68, elmtree,harthstone,new mack

Post by memco man » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 10:46 pm

Thank you for your reply lzaharis I do remove the stack on the oil boiler when I run the coal boiler I have isolation valves on the coal boiler so if I run the oil boiler I don't have to heat the water in the stoker I did have a expansion and bleeder on the last set up but on the drawing that Keystone has they have a pipe coming out of the top of the boiler and it goes into a expansion up in the celling the circulators are on the oil boiler they are all on the return side of the oil boiler so it will be pushing the water through the coal boiler then back to the oil boiler I have a triple aquastat on the oil boiler and I bought a hydrostat from Keystroker but I am not sure if I can make it work on this unit I have it on the boiler but the want two aquatat right next to it and I don't have the port in the boiler there they are on the stack side ( on the other end this boiler never had a triple aquastat I will try to send some pictures tomorrow
Thanks you for the information MM

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 11:21 pm

memco man wrote:
Tue. Sep. 25, 2018 3:24 pm
Good after noon everyone I am sorry about the long delay I got really busy with a whole lot of other things and to put the boiler on the back burner so to speak I started to work on it a couple of days ago and got the two boilers tied together now all I have to do is wire it up which I have no ideal how to but I think that with your help and some diagrams I can get her done I hope that I piped it right I tied the feed from the stoker into the return of the oil boiler I figured that if there is any heat loss it would go into the house I have seen where people have taken the feed from the stoker and put it into the feed line of the oil boiler which makes science because you would be heating less water not sure which is the best way I will post more pictures later

I hope that everyone had a good summer

M.M
I have done it both ways. If you have the supply from the coal boiler tied into the return header of the oil boiler, the water gets tempered by the water being returned from the zones. This means you have to have the coal boiler run at a higher temperature to get the same temperature at the radiators. I have found that having the supply from one boiler connected to the supply of the other simply works better.

 
memco man
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon. Oct. 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Location: vermont
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 KA-6 Keystoker
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Tarms 504
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska liberty
Hand Fed Coal Stove: jotul NR 507, crane coal cooker 44, crane 404, chubby w/blower, chubby w/out blower, franco blege 10-475 Montgomery ward laundry stove Moore's Brother seventeen circulator stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/anthracite/pea
Other Heating: harman p68, elmtree,harthstone,new mack

Post by memco man » Wed. Sep. 26, 2018 1:34 pm

Thank you Rob for your reply. I have it tied all together putting the feed from the coal boiler the return of the oil boiler would I get that much benefit from changing it over it is quit a process for me to run pipe I have no way to cut and thread the pipe I have to measure then go to the local (H/D) have them make the pipe up for me and each trip is about 2-1/2 hrs. if it worth my effort I will do it I want to get this one right

Thanks again
M.M.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Wed. Sep. 26, 2018 4:24 pm

No harm in running it the way you have it piped. See how it goes.

What caused the issue for me was not getting enough heat out of my radiators to keep the house warm in cold windy weather. In extreme weather I need 190 degree water in the baseboards, and when I had the coal boiler tied into the return header for the zones, this was not possible without operating the coal boiler at 200 degrees or higher. I did not care for that from an efficiency and safety standpoint, so I decided to change the piping arrangement after the first winter.

 
User avatar
StokerDon
Site Moderator
Posts: 7486
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Wed. Sep. 26, 2018 7:00 pm

I agree with Rob. Basically, the way you have it connected now, the oil boiler is the primary heat load, not the house. This will still heat the house but the coal boiler has to heat the oil boiler first.

Did you run a boiler bypass? Pictures work a little better than typing when it comes to boiler plumbing.

-Don


Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”