Coal Boiler to Heat Swimming Pool

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 3:09 pm

Last summer my wife and I purchased a home with an 18x36 in ground swimming pool. It was in bad shape and hadn't been in use for years. Pump was junk, liner was shot, and it really looked more like a pond than a pool. After a lot of elbow grease and deal hunting we got a new liner installed, replumbed everything and enjoyed it for the summer. For the most part, the pool was about 86 degrees. It seems to hold heat very well since it's underground. My wife insists that we need a heater for the initial warm up as well as the few colder summer days we get here in PA.
I'm trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I have a 26x30 detached garage that sits next to the pool. I'm currently heating it with a Harman stove. I also have plans to either add on to it or put up a bigger building.
I was discussing it with a friend and he mentioned his parents have a boiler in their basement they want rid of. It's free I just need to get it out of there. It's a Chappee boiler and looks to be in good shape. They burnt coal in it so it doesn't have the creosote buildup those boilers were known for.
I'm just looking for some opinions on whether this is a good idea or not. It should be able to handle both things no problem and it would only be heating one or the other. Plus, ITS FREE. How can I beat that?


 
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tsb
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Post by tsb » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 3:14 pm

It's all about btus, do the math.

 
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Uglysquirrel
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Post by Uglysquirrel » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 4:56 pm

This is a complex discussion. Permit me to introduce two considerations.

Heat loss thru the ground is one consideration but likely not the predominant loss process. Heat loss thru water evaporation is your main enemy. We have a 24' above ground pool that can lose several degrees in one very cool summer night due in large part what is called the the latent heat of evaporation. It is a process that inherently changes your liquid water into water vapor. The effect increases as the relative humidity drops....and having a pound of water evaporate sucks about 970 BTU's from your pool. This means that for every gallon of water that evaporates, something like 9000-10,000 BTU's is being sucked from your water. This lowers your pool's temp. 9000-10000 BTU's is roughly the same energy as one pound of coal (~12K minus heat losses)

https://www.google.com/#q=latent+heat+of+vaporization+btu%2Flb

You can do the math for gallons, etc. What really helps stop the water from vaporizing is that blue bubble wrap stuff that goes on the water's surface. They call it a "solar cover" though it's main attribute is to stop evaporation. You also don't see your water level lower nearly as fast with this type cover.

Here's a good site for your calculations. Note the wind speed, etc. In the end if you really want to do this you may want to consider putting some sort of "greenhouse" cover over the entire pool for pretty much any season other than the summer. Otherwise I could maybe see doing some sort of pool heating in mid to late spring to mid to later fall though even then the heat losses could be very challenging unless of course you have a wet suit on.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/swimming-pool-heating-d_878.html

Good luck.

Ug

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 5:36 pm

You need 250K BTUs, about the minimum for this deal.

 
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Post by Uglysquirrel » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 5:43 pm

coaledsweat wrote:You need 250K BTUs, about the minimum for this deal.
Gosh CoaledSweat , that's about only 25 lbs of coal an hour !

 
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 7:15 pm

We do use a solar cover. The pool is covered every night and any time there's no one in it. We've used it from day one so I don't really know how big of an effect it has on water temperature. I'm not really looking to maintain a constant temperature. Basically I want to get it warm as soon as possible in the spring and only fire it if need be during the summer.
I'm thinking of it like this. 82 degree water on an 88 degree day feels great. But 82 on a 74 day feels a little chilly. I know it won't be perfect that way and will take awhile to raise the water temperature but we can deal with it. I spend enough heating everything during the winter, I'm not really looking to spend a fortune in the summer to maintain 35k gallons of water at a certain temp.
I've looked into all the other options and they just seem way too expensive. I figured I could do it cheaper with coal and also have a boiler for my garage.

 
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Post by CoalHeat » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:28 pm

The other issue is chlorine is very corrosive, that and oxygen-rich pool water won't be kind to the boiler. I've heard about heat exchangers being used in this application. I seem to remember this being discussed here as well.


 
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Post by CoalHeat » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:33 pm


 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:36 pm

How deep is the pool?

Keeping a solar cover on it is the single best thing you can do to prevent heat loss and help keep it warm. If no one is in the pool, the cover is on it.

I use passive solar panels that help allot.

BTU Output of Swimming Pool Solar Panels

 
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Post by KLook » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:50 pm

I can't speak to the pool aspect of this discussion, but the Chappee boiler is fantastic with coal. There are threads in here about them and my old business partner is running his second one in a house in Maine. BTU output is probably on a label on it, but it is sectional and he added sections to his original one and increased the output. It was very controllable and easy to operate.

Kevin

 
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:55 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:The other issue is chlorine is very corrosive, that and oxygen-rich pool water won't be kind to the boiler. I've heard about heat exchangers being used in this application. I seem to remember this being discussed here as well.
This was one of my concerns and a big reason for my post. I know of several guys in my area that use outdoor furnaces to heat pools and none have had issues that I know of. But I'm not familiar with the differences between a boiler and an outdoor furnace.

 
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:56 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Coal Fired Pool Heater
I read that thread before I posted. I'll definitely use the info for BTU calculations but I didn't get much out of it otherwise.

 
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 8:59 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Coal Fired Pool Heater
I checked out this thread, and the OP never finished it, or followed up on its success.
Funny this came up, cause I have a 24' above ground pool that had the same complaint. While cleaning out my basement recently, I still have a Carlin oil burner I pulled off a rusted out hot water heater, about 30 yrs ago. It worked fine, and I too was trying to think how to make it work as a pool heater. But a summer or 2 ago, I asked this same question on this site, and there doesn't seem to be an easy or quick solution to this idea. One of my concerns is that even if you do size a stove correctly, and plumb it properly, how well will the coals burn in the hot weather, and how much of a chimney is needed to properly draft it?
On a side note, here's an interesting story that was told to me a year or 2 ago. A buddy was tag sailing one weekend, and asked a homeowner about an old Chebby pick-up sitting in the weeds in the back yard. The owner answered it was his "pool heater". Claims that when warm water is needed, he fires it up to warm the engine, and has an extended length of pool hose running from his pool pump/filter, to the engine block, (no radiator) and returns the heated water to his pool through another line. My question is, how many gallons of hot water can it pump on a gallon of gas :?:

 
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Feb. 04, 2017 9:01 pm

Lightning wrote:How deep is the pool?

Keeping a solar cover on it is the single best thing you can do to prevent heat loss and help keep it warm. If no one is in the pool, the cover is on it.

I use passive solar panels that help allot.

BTU Output of Swimming Pool Solar Panels
It's about 8 feet deep. It's a hopper style deep end if you're familiar with that.

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 05, 2017 12:16 am

I have a solar cover, but when the temps go in the 60° range at night, the water temp in an above ground pool just loses its heat over night, cover or not. But a solar cover is good for keeping the pool cleaner, if you're mowing, or are located under a maple tree like mine is.


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