Hall's 1991 DF 520 Build Thread

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 10:10 am

I am embarrassed to say that I would be the one who would have a hard time dropping the thermostat, Brittany would probably adapt easily. After doing deliveries all day out in the frozen tundra and wind, I have become quite fond of my warmer climate indoors through the years. I’m not a very big boy and don’t carry much insulation...I know that’s a poor excuse, but it wouldn’t be much of a coal yard if I couldn’t keep warm. :lol:

You are right though Rob about the cast iron radiators making the difference. I had baseboards at the old house and was never happy as I would run out of capacity on the baseboards before the boiler would. The temperature stays very steady in here and yes, the floors are very warm.

When we get done digging a basement for Windy we must come back to Loysburg and dig. I have a concrete slab for a front porch that is on a block foundation. The slab is suspended on a ledge on the house side. One end has the foyer to walk into the basement, and the remaining 2/3 was backfilled under the slab. It is right on the other side of the wall from the EFM, and my delivery truck would fill it easily right off the road. It could hold nearly 7 ton of coal by my estimate, I am tired of carting buckets around on the Gator.

So you see where I am going with that thought. Sounds like a hell of a lot of work as I am sure it wasn’t backfilled with 2-b stone in 1956 but the end result would be well worth it. I have had two different professional builders look it over good to gather their thoughts and neither one saw anything that would weaken the structure if it was properly supported with permanent poles as I excavate. I don’t know... just a fleeting thought at the moment. :baby:

I have picks, shovels, and digging bars... no need to bring your own. I will provide plenty of Yuengling Lager to wash the dirt down! :)

 
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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 10:36 am

I have no idea what your ground is like there...

Mine is vertical shale :what: :o
Horizontal shale is easier to dig. :)

 
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CoalJockey
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: (2) Warm Morning Stoves

Post by CoalJockey » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 4:17 pm

The last few days around here saw some of the most brutal conditions I think I have ever experienced. This morning it was -5 in these parts but it felt like Miami since the wind laid down. Yesterday and the day before saw single digits on the positive side but the 30 mph winds were just torturous. Today it is up to 19 and forecast looks better as the week goes on as far as temperatures are concerned.

I would like to take a moment to reflect and grin because the gold medal goes to the EFM as Old Man Winter retreats after his first semester. My old-school attitude from running an old S-20 stoker pot for 10 years was trying to convince me that perhaps I should bump the feed rate up to 5 teeth due to the worsening weather conditions. The Hydrostat soon adjusted itself to a 200 degree high limit and I quickly saw no need to change from 4 teeth to 5. Friday morning when I came downstairs to have coffee, the burner was not even running and it did not do so for about 15 minutes.

I have been feeding it from 5 gallon buckets right off the pile at the shop but I am doing the same for the S-20 stoker at the old house to keep a bit of heat there. I have not really been weighing what I take as it would be a pain to keep the two separated. It occurred to me to check the total hours and I would soon know how much coal I used. So at 650 total hours and 10 pounds per hour, that lines up to approximately 3 1/4 ton so far... with which I am very well pleased. With some care, I can get that number down in the future.

A few random observations: I have identified a few areas that need attention as far as cold air infiltration. The first and second floors are nearly airtight except for 2 well known culprits. My front door is a big old solid oak door with a glass in the middle, although it closes and latches tight it is very drafty around the edges and of course the North wind pummels the hell out of it. I need to get some heavy weather stripping and go around the jamb, and a rubber sweep on the bottom may help a bit too.

The back porch is a closed-in lean-to structure and is unheated with no basement under it. We only use it for storage and the freezer is out there too. This was formerly where my grandad had his office for the trucking business and he heated it with an old milk house heater. A bi-fold oak door leads right into the kitchen and of course it has large gaps all around it. We did temporarily knock the cold air down here by hanging a full size thermal window curtain across it and rolling up a rug and laid it at the bottom. Something more permanent would be nice here.

The foyer under the front porch that leads to the basement leaks air in terribly. It’s a very wide opening through the stone foundation from the foyer to the basement so until another year I need to build my own insulated door to defeat this. I get some moving air around the basement windows and I would like to replace them when I can. This will tighten up things enough I think I will need to put in a pipe for replacement air when the stoker runs.

Until another year rolls around I need to come up with a bulk bin to save me some time at the end of a long day. What that looks like yet I am still quite a bit unsure but I will come up with something.

All in all I am very happy with this system and we have been so warm in this house it is nearly shameful. I spent time over the Holidays at friends and relatives houses, and my feet were cold and I had to wear a flannel or overshirt in every one of them. 😠

Yep, spoiled rotten now. 😉

 
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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 4:48 pm

Thanks for the update !! If it can keep you so warm on 4 teeth feed..... just think how warm you could be on 7 teeth feed :what: :P

coalnewbie says that overkill is good,but more overkill is better..

I think you are experiencing more overkill :)

Yet it will slow down to barely any thing & still be efficient.

Sounds like you have a few air leak projects less than i do & less expensive ones too.

Yep,i am happy with my EFM too.


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Jan. 12, 2018 6:34 am

I went back and read this thread all the way from the beginning and looked at all the pictures again. What a great project.

When you consider the size and age of the house that you are heating, I think you are doing very well on your coal consumption. It is a great example of what can be done if you plan out the installation carefully, use modern controls, and are able to limit the air flow through the house.

Does the boiler keep the basement comfortable when it gets really cold outside?

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Jan. 12, 2018 8:18 pm

Thanks for that Rob. Looking back at the other EFM installs that I have done, this was easily my favorite.

I feel that the most important item that I have learned through this is that these things belong in the basement...if it is anyway possible. I am not knocking remote installs at all, one of my other systems is housed in a shed, and this install was very close to becoming remote as well. Every time I walk across the warm floor in here I am grateful for those who encouraged me to take another look at a basement installation. Every BTU that is made is kept in the house, within reason.

I used to write off boiler controls as any kind of a way to save some fuel... I just did not see it happening. To me, one aquastat was the same as the next. After watching the Hydrolevel heat this house when it was 15 degrees outside and do it on 160 degree water, I’ve been convinced. I feel the reset timer has contributed as well to eliminate any unneeded timer cycles. Although I have had my reservations about the computerized controls, everything is working as it was intended to do. Two minutes here, two minutes there... it adds up quicker than I first thought.

Rob, I will say that during the single digit days last week, it was just a shade chilly in the basement. It was not offensively cold but it was more noticeable when it was time to step out of the shower. I am convinced a large part of that was due to the cold air that was drifting in from the foyer area. I don’t have a chance to do anything with it right now, but till another season rolls around, I will have a solution there. The only moving air I can find in the entire house comes creeping in at this area.

Although I will likely fall a bit short of my intended goal of 6 tons per year, I am well pleased to even be be anywhere near to that figure. When this first began, I truely had no idea what to expect... was imagining to be closer to 9 tons or so for a season. When I first mentioned to Dad that I was shooting for 6 tons, he looked at me like “this kids freakin’ crazy”. :lol:

I still want to set up the oil equipment for the dual fuel... perhaps till next season.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Jan. 12, 2018 8:39 pm

Since you already have an extra zone valve and return port on the piping, it would be very simple to add a radiator to the basement - if you wanted some btus down there on the cold days. A cast iron radiator would work great, but a length of fin-tube radiation would do the job also.

10-4 on the oil gun, will make it easier to go away, or easier to stay warm with the flu, sprained ankle, etc.

Another option that not many consider is an electric boiler. They take up very little space, have no fuel to go bad, and can be made to turn on automatically. If you plan to burn coal most of the time, and have the electrical capacity, it may be worth looking at.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Apr. 15, 2018 6:04 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Fri. Jan. 12, 2018 8:18 pm

Although I will likely fall a bit short of my intended goal of 6 tons per year, I am well pleased to even be be anywhere near to that figure. When this first began, I truly had no idea what to expect... was imagining to be closer to 9 tons or so for a season.
Time for an update. Check the hour meter and let us know where you are at.


 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Mon. Apr. 16, 2018 9:00 pm

You are right Rob, I will be happy to oblige.

I just looked a moment ago and I am sitting right at 1,668 hours of run time since the LOGO unit was first plugged in and powered up. There were approximately 14 hours that were accumulated in the beginning before the unit was first fired, nearly all of these came due to the big wiring fiasco that was had with the zone-valve panel. So let’s say 1654 hours of fire-time.

Most of you know that the stoker drum was filled with 5-gallon buckets directly from the stockpile at our retail yard all Winter in the absence of a suitable storage bin at the house. Crossing the scale and tracking each load would be a pain in the rear, half the time you can’t get across the scale anyhow due to the customer traffic. Soooooooo, I must go by EFMs measurement that 4 teeth = 10 lbs per hour, which I feel is a fair starting point.

1654 hours x 10 lbs per hour = 16,540 lbs... or just a little over 8.25 tons.

This is about 2 tons over my goal of 6 tons per year, but I think there are several factors that will help me improve this in the coming years. First and foremost will be the installation of some new doors and windows in the basement to help knock down the drafts. Also, I could have been MUCH more conservative on the thermostat setting, but It is hard to roll that thing back from 74 to 72 when you pound on frozen lumps of coal and drag heavy conveyors through the snow all day. Besides, Loysburg is the Land of Plenty. :stfu:

Although February was somewhat warmer than we are used to seeing, overall I think the heating season this year has been longer than normal. I am thinking other years this thing would just be idling along at a snails pace awaiting a short heat call every now and then. I’m sure there would have been a small savings of fuel there as well.

Overall I am still very well pleased with that number considering the size of this house and limited insulation values. There are houses this size that I deliver stoker-coal into and they use twice that amount. Hopefully this Summer I can find the time to make some improvements and we will see if I can get that number shaved down a bit. But I am not changing that thermostat setting... YET. :D

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CoalJockey
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: (2) Warm Morning Stoves

Post by CoalJockey » Mon. Apr. 16, 2018 9:25 pm

Also, after a full heating season to observe and critique, there are a few things I have learned that I would like to point out.

For anyone considering doing their own electrical work on a new installation, EMT conduit is really not that expensive and is very friendly to work with. You can buy pre-cut runs of straight pipe or get them long and cut your own. Sweep elbows are also available and at that rate you don’t even have to make your own bends. Compression fittings are available that tighten with a wrench and when finished and clamped in place the pipe will not be moved.

This was my first experience using EMT on my own. I likely looked like a total idiot at ACE and Home Depot after staring at an entire wall full of fittings for a half hour, pulling them out and putting it back in my basket as I went along. However, the end result was well worth it as it made for a very professional looking job. When the insurance agent showed up for the final inspection, the first thing he said was “Wow, you must have a lot of money invested here to have an electrical contractor do the job”. I just replied, “Naaaaa, not as much as you may think” :D

One other thing to point out... on the Honeywell Zone Panel. Don’t just assume that the wiring diagram that you downloaded online is exactly the same as the system you are wiring for... even if it looks close. If I had the proper diagram from Honeywell to begin with, I could have saved an entire weekend of frustration. Do your homework before you begin something that complex.

One thing I would like to add to the system before the next season is a high temperature cut-out at the beginning of the circuit just for extra insurance. This should have been installed to begin with, however I barely got the unit installed and running in time as it was.

I am amazed at how simple the DF boilers are to clean compared to the older round doors. The entire heat exchanger can be brushed down through the front fire door after removing the baffles and can be done mid-season as the unit idles.

Cheap, efficient, and once the settings are dialed in correctly they are about as boring as it gets. Put coal in once a day or two, and dump ashes every 12-14 hours... enjoy the consistent warmth.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Apr. 17, 2018 8:27 pm

10/18/17 to 4/16/18, 74 degrees, 8.25 tons of coal.

Sounds like a great performance for your first year heating a 150 yr old house. What is your best estimate of the average temperature of each floor, and the square footage per floor?

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