Hall's 1991 DF 520 Build Thread

 
Pacowy
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Post by Pacowy » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 2:09 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 2:51 pm
So now we are vented into a 14” inside diameter square brick chimney (I first thought it was only 10” and found out later it was larger). Needless to say now we have enough draft to suck the baro damper right up the pipe.
When I was using a big chimney I found that make-up air for the boiler room was a key ingredient for keeping the draft under control. Before that revelation I probably lost unnecessary btu's up the chimney, and inadvertently exported a fair amount of stuff to Europe. :roll: :lol:

Mike


 
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Post by CoalJockey » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 5:10 pm

I heard that Mike! I am amazed at the difference...these things do need to breathe.

I have a question in regards to that very issue you brought forth. There are two windows and a door to the outside in the basement. The windows are the only single pane windows left in the entire place and the old wooden door does not seal tight by any means. I would like to install better windows and a new door wouldn’t hurt things any either. Would I do a bad thing if I replaced these? Is it possible I would then make the basement too tight in terms of make-up air and starve the boiler for air again?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 5:29 pm

You will likely be smart to install a dryer vent (or similar) somewhere in the basement for the boiler to get it's air.Install the vent backwards of normal so the flap will open according to the amount of air needed. Otherwise the boiler will have to pull the air from ... any crack.... upstairs... etc....

 
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Post by Pacowy » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 5:38 pm

x2.

I would suggest being very careful about tightening anything up there. You might want to consider trying out running with the window nearest to the boiler open a little. Obviously be careful of pipes that could freeze, etc.

I was pretty shocked when I found that a slightly larger burner than the (big) stoker I was using would require, by code, a fixed opening for make-up air about the size of a normal window.

Mike

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 5:48 pm

I can't imagine make-up air being a problem in a house as old and large as this one. I don't mean that as negative criticism, just pointing out that older homes are difficult to seal up.

I suggest closing all windows and doors, turning all on the bathroom fans, range hood, and the clothes dryer - then go to the basement and check the draft on the EFM with the stoker off, and with it on. If the draft is in spec. you do not have a problem with make-up air. With that said, adding some sort of a vent to bring outside air into the general boiler area down by the floor would reduce the air being drawn from other cracks in the house, and keep the cold air away from anything that would be bothered by it.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 5:55 pm

My suggestion was mainly based on the plan to install new windows & a door...

If weatherization projects are done to the same level as this boiler install.......
There will be no air available for the boiler to breathe.
I am still amazed when i look at all those pictures..
Will the coal bin be just as pretty ??

 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 06, 2017 6:10 pm

This install has been a joy to follow. I felt like I got to install mine all over again with someone else paying for it...and I didn't get covered with pipe dope and flux! :D

At my place I sealed up the old basement windows and left the original door in place. The door is an odd size (expensive to replace), and it seemed like a logical place to bring make up air into the basement, so I put a 1/4" screen sweeper on it to keep the mice out and called it good.


 
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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Nov. 11, 2017 8:56 pm

Thanks for the kind words and all of your support through this project...it was very fun and I am very well pleased with the results.

This is truely the heating system that you guys built though. Many of you contributed ideas that became part of this install, even many who were not a part of this specific thread. I have read everything that has come down the line on this forum the last few years and many of those ideas I filed away in my mind waiting to put them to use. There were several of you that I was in direct contact with over the Summer about boiler controls and other various items and I thank you all. :yes:

The low overnight here was 17 degrees and it was a good test for the 520 to actually put a load on it. I left it set at 4 teeth, 4.5 air, and it just laughed at it like it was some sort of game. When I came down this morning the stoker was not even running and it did not do so for another 20 minutes after I sat down for coffee. Although there was no wind going to speak of, I am convinced that this thing will march right through our worst conditions here (negative single digits and wind) with reserve capacity for more.

I have been using a home built coal vac that I used where I lived previously, but I am not very happy with it at all. I have a whole different situation here for the piping and it is painfully slow, I really don’t think that is the answer. If I ever get my act together I would like to just build a bulk bin and get it over with. It would not even need to be a hopper bottom but I just want to get 3-4 tons in the basement at a time. I’m tired of trying to re-invent the wheel and I think I am making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughts and ideas are always welcome on that matter.

One observation worth noting is that I had a lot of unburnt coal in the ash when the chimney liner was still hooked up. Now with the liner on the scrap pile and 10 times better draft it is really getting a good burn and the unburnt coal is now at a minimum. Not to go on about it...but I just cannot believe the difference. Here are photos of the tub I pulled out this evening.

Attachments

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Nice ash, huh?

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.JPEG | 1.5MB | BD0D9D83-A5DF-439C-A664-363B5FFCBD30.jpeg

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Wed. Dec. 13, 2017 8:58 pm

Thought I would post an update now that the weather went to pot and looks to stay that way for awhile. This boiler is doing the job appearing almost effortless at 160-170 degrees on the water temperature and heating both floors and the basement to 75 degrees, likely closer to 80 in the basement.

Although we will eventually see the single digits and negatives here at the bottom of the Alleghenies, last night and today was brutal with the wind, it was about 16 when I made coffee at 5:30 this morning. I refilled the hopper at 5:00 tonight, pert near 24 hours to when it was previously topped off. I dumped in 3 five-gallon buckets, at 35-40 pounds apiece and there were exactly 12 hours of run time for the stoker over that 24 hour period.

That lines right up with EFMs rate of 10 lbs per hour at 4 teeth on the feed rate. So let’s figure 110 to 120 lbs of coal over the course of 24 hours... I think that’s pretty good for a 2 story, triple-brick with no insulation and 11-foot high ceilings on a stone foundation. I think we use more than our share of the domestic water because with 2 children here now there are always dishes and laundry being done.

At this rate, it would have to get bitchin’ cold in order to justify moving the feed rate from 4 to 5 teeth. I will never say never because I suppose several single-digit days with the wind howling could make the difference but for now I am well pleased. The only adjustment that I have made was to the economy setting on the Hydrostat, which I lowered from 2 to 1 in order to gain a faster recovery time in the kitchen.

There are some drafts coming in at the bottom of the front door and at the back porch that I need to go after but I need to get the holidays out of the way first. Some weather stripping and new sweeps on the door may make a big difference, that is the only moving air I can find at all.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 5:33 am

Based on that I would expect 1.5 tons for January, 1.3 tons for Feb, 1.2 for March, and 0.75 tons for April...7ish tons for the whole heating season.

If you put some jackets on that 520 and seal up those drafts, you will get closer to your goal of 6 tons. Training everyone to handle 73 degrees rather than 75 would help too, but one battle at a time. :D

Also, now that the stoker is getting some long runs, take a peak at the ash ring. You might find that it gets a little large and on long runs and you can back the air down a little.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 6:43 am

75* is not too warm when sitting around in a house that has drafts & is has less than the best for insulation.Those solid brick walls with no insulation are almost like cinder block walls,the cold just keeps seeping in,having the room temp at 75* helps overcome that cold feeling.

Now comes the enjoyable part of your boiler install...
Enjoying family time while the coal boiler keeps all members warm. :)

Don't forget to update us... if & when the brutal temps do hit.
I have no doubt that you will never have to worry about the 520 coming up short.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 7:21 am

I was just poking fun at the balmy thermostat setting. Whatever keeps the boss happy is the right number.

I hear you on the cold walls, but I think you would be surprised at how nice that house feels with warm floors, and thousands of pounds of cast iron radiators putting radiant heat back into the room. It is nothing like a house with a hot air system and cold floors.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 8:18 am

Rob R. wrote:
Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 7:21 am
I was just poking fun at the balmy thermostat setting. Whatever keeps the boss happy is the right number.

I hear you on the cold walls, but I think you would be surprised at how nice that house feels with warm floors, and thousands of pounds of cast iron radiators putting radiant heat back into the room. It is nothing like a house with a hot air system and cold floors.
Yea,yea,yea..
I am constantly reminded that i have no basement.. :P
I guess i will take a pick & shovel down to my crawl space & start digging,in 5 - 10 yrs i should have a basement. :)

I am just glad that CJ has those warm floors & radiators, he has little ones to crawl around on the floor,whereas i don't.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 8:22 am

Basement makes no difference if it is cold enough to hang meat in...which most of them are in old houses with gas or oil systems.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 8:30 am

Rob R. wrote:
Thu. Dec. 14, 2017 8:22 am
Basement makes no difference if it is cold enough to hang meat in...which most of them are in old houses with gas or oil systems.
When i get done digging, i can move the 520 into the basement,which would also allow me to cut back on the footage of buried pex.

I may have to recruit some volunteers to help with the digging :P

I do hate cold floors,but i have no young ones to crawl around on the floor & the cats just move closer to the hand fed stove as the cold creeps further inward.


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