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Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:14 pm
by coaledsweat
L has a heavier wall and is typically used in commercial applications.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:40 pm
by lsayre
Based on the 46 year wear that I witnessed, in about another 46 years mine will be getting mighty thin in spots. But for about 36 years it was tied to a B&G 100 circulator, and the GPM flow may have been ridiculously higher than necessary.

Type M has less pressure drop and therefore will give you higher GPM flow than Type L.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:42 pm
by Rob R.
lsayre wrote:Based on the 46 year wear that I witnessed, in about another 46 years mine will be getting mighty thin in spots.
Or...maybe all of the wear happens in the first 3 years and it stabilizes after that. :)

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:45 pm
by lsayre
Rob R. wrote:Or...maybe all of the wear happens in the first 3 years and it stabilizes after that. :)
It does get mighty smooth inside with age. Improves the flow.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:47 pm
by Rob R.
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:
Not sure what a monoflow system is, but I do know I have 1-1/4 inch copper loop running part way around the basement about 30' then it splits & the 1 1/4" runs left and the right leg is 1" and then both loops return to the boiler, smaller pipe branches off to each baseboard then returns to the main loop. I made a diagram of what I want to do and I hope u can tell me if it will work if I can add it here. I am going to try and load it . lol it loaded but it is above this post and it loaded 2 times sorry
A monoflow system uses a large main loop with tees and smaller pipes going to & from each radiator.

Like this:
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Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 10:36 pm
by FirstcoalstokerRon
Thanks Rob, I understand now and yes that is what I have now and the diagram is what I am going to do so I will have more than one zone, pump and thermostat All of you are a lot of help, not sure what I would do without you all so thanks again

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Wed. Feb. 01, 2017 4:11 am
by lsayre
I believe the monoflow system requires only a single circulator, and doesn't use conventional thermostats. It requires "monoflow tees" (diverter-tees) and "thermostatic valves"(TRV's). Way less expensive and less complex (read that, more reliable) than multiple circulators.

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/diverter-tee-q-and-a/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_radiator_valve

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/what-is-a-thermostatic-radiator-valve/

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Wed. Feb. 01, 2017 5:28 am
by Rob R.
If the existing monoflow system is working well I would leave it as its own zone. Adding a few small radiators to it might be ok, but that huge sunroom you mentioned definitely needs to be on its own zone.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 12:52 am
by FirstcoalstokerRon
lsayre wrote:I believe the monoflow system requires only a single circulator, and doesn't use conventional thermostats. It requires "monoflow tees" (diverter-tees) and "thermostatic valves"(TRV's). Way less expensive and less complex (read that, more reliable) than multiple circulators.

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/diverter-tee-q-and-a/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_radiator_valve

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/what-is-a-thermostatic-radiator-valve/

Thanks lsayre and Rob for the posts, both were a lot of help. I now know I have a monoflow system that splits about 30' from the boiler. It has one circulator, one thermostat, diverter-tees and no TRV's. Its a large main loop with (diverter-tees) and smaller pipes going to & from each radiator. Each radiator has a bleeder valve and an open/close valve that I am scared to open or close as they have not moved in over 50 years. I plan on two circulators and two thermostats so I can control the heat in each zone better. After that's done ill add a zone or two for the spa room and a dump zone. THANKS AGAIN radiator = fin-tube baseboard

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 5:45 am
by lsayre
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:radiator = fin-tube baseboard
In the case for which within these few key words lies a coded, veiled, or subliminal whiff of doubt in need of affirmation (for the OP, or for any of this threads readers), all of the above will work for both cast iron and hot water baseboard radiators.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 6:00 am
by Rob R.
One thing I should point out, "Monoflow" is the trade name of the system that Bell & Gossett developed. The technical name for this type of system is a diverter tee system. Taco had their own version of this, and there might be others.

Ron, my uncle's house has a system very similar to yours. His has a 1.25" line that comes out of the boiler and goes all the way down to the opposite end of the basement, from there it splits into two 1" lines which follow the perimeter of the house back to the boiler. If you wanted to control each half of the loop independently, you could do that with two zone valves and two thermostats.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 3:04 pm
by FirstcoalstokerRon
lsayre wrote:
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:radiator = fin-tube baseboard
In the case for which within these few key words lies a coded, veiled, or subliminal whiff of doubt in need of affirmation (for the OP, or for any of this threads readers), all of the above will work for both cast iron and hot water baseboard radiators.

Thanks for this post and all the other help u have given me it all is appreciated

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 7:39 pm
by FirstcoalstokerRon
Rob R. wrote:One thing I should point out, "Monoflow" is the trade name of the system that Bell & Gossett developed. The technical name for this type of system is a diverter tee system. Taco had their own version of this, and there might be others.

Ron, my uncle's house has a system very similar to yours. His has a 1.25" line that comes out of the boiler and goes all the way down to the opposite end of the basement, from there it splits into two 1" lines which follow the perimeter of the house back to the boiler. If you wanted to control each half of the loop independently, you could do that with two zone valves and two thermostats.
Rob you are right I was wrong as mine also splits into two 1" loops, not a 1.25" and a 1" as I stated before. When my grandparents bought this house 50 some years ago there was a gas boiler with a big red Bell & Gossett circulator and one thermostat, The B&G has been replaced with a Taco.

As of now the left loop goes to the bedrooms, laundry room and bath room and it also has 3/4" loop going to a radiator in the basement. The right loop goes to the living room and then the dinning room. I want to make the right loop zone 1 and the left loop zone 2. As the bathroom is last in line on the left loop I am going to cut it out and make the bathroom zone 3 because I want the bathroom hotter than the bed rooms. Zone 4 will be the radiator in the basement I will make it a dump zone for the COAL GUN .

The spa room will be zones 5 & 6 do to its size and the fact I heat the spa and the swim tank with home made heat exchangers I will install two zones in the spa room.

Each zone will have a circulator and a thermostat as needed, I am going to use circulators instead of zone valves as I have the circulators.

Can I make a 1.50" "manifold" coming off the boiler and take each zone off of it with a ball valve before and after each circulator ??

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Sun. Feb. 12, 2017 11:42 pm
by FirstcoalstokerRon
I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't. I have searched it and the more I read the more confused I get, so if I do need to put in a bypass loop would u please tell me where it goes to and from.

Re: Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Posted: Mon. Feb. 13, 2017 4:23 am
by lsayre
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't. I have searched it and the more I read the more confused I get, so if I do need to put in a bypass loop would u please tell me where it goes to and from.
Do you mean a dump zone (that gets rid of excessive heat in the boiler) perhaps? Any existing zone can double as the dump zone, or you can set up a dedicated heat dump radiator.