Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Stoker Coal Boilers automatically feed the coal and have controls and pumps just like any conventions boiler. They are intended to be used as a primary heat and often have domestic hot water coils as an added bonus. They can be set up independently or in dual sytem with your existing oil/gas boiler. They can accommodate both hot water base board or steam plumbing.
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FirstcoalstokerRon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 4:27 pm

lsayre wrote:Wall thickness. You don't need much of it for home heating applications.
Thanks lsayre. What one is thickest and is the thin one ok to use for baseboard hot water heat ? I hope so as I think I have some of both .

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 5:46 pm

From memory type M is the thinner of the two. It is universally chosen as the right one for hydronic heating. My house has had it in use since 1964. When I tapped into it during my boiler install I did notice that it is a bit thinner walled than fresh and new type M, so 46 years of use did thin it a bit.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

FirstcoalstokerRon
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Posts: 89
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 6:27 pm

lsayre wrote:From memory type M is the thinner of the two. It is universally chosen as the right one for hydronic heating. My house has had it in use since 1964. When I tapped into it during my boiler install I did notice that it is a bit thinner walled than fresh and new type M, so 46 years of use did thin it a bit.
Thanks again seems as if that is one less think for me to worry about as I think the older pipe it thicker than the new I bought to s[lit the loop into zones THANKS AGAIN All your help is appreciated now ill start the manifold and the zones going to get it all laid out the cut into the old supply and return loops

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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
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Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:14 pm

L has a heavier wall and is typically used in commercial applications.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:40 pm

Based on the 46 year wear that I witnessed, in about another 46 years mine will be getting mighty thin in spots. But for about 36 years it was tied to a B&G 100 circulator, and the GPM flow may have been ridiculously higher than necessary.

Type M has less pressure drop and therefore will give you higher GPM flow than Type L.
Last edited by lsayre on Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:42 pm

lsayre wrote:Based on the 46 year wear that I witnessed, in about another 46 years mine will be getting mighty thin in spots.
Or...maybe all of the wear happens in the first 3 years and it stabilizes after that. :)

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:45 pm

Rob R. wrote:Or...maybe all of the wear happens in the first 3 years and it stabilizes after that. :)
It does get mighty smooth inside with age. Improves the flow.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
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Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 9:47 pm

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:
Not sure what a monoflow system is, but I do know I have 1-1/4 inch copper loop running part way around the basement about 30' then it splits & the 1 1/4" runs left and the right leg is 1" and then both loops return to the boiler, smaller pipe branches off to each baseboard then returns to the main loop. I made a diagram of what I want to do and I hope u can tell me if it will work if I can add it here. I am going to try and load it . lol it loaded but it is above this post and it loaded 2 times sorry
A monoflow system uses a large main loop with tees and smaller pipes going to & from each radiator.

Like this:
download.gif

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FirstcoalstokerRon
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Posts: 89
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Post Tue. Jan. 31, 2017 10:36 pm

Rob R. wrote:
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:
Not sure what a monoflow system is, but I do know I have 1-1/4 inch copper loop running part way around the basement about 30' then it splits & the 1 1/4" runs left and the right leg is 1" and then both loops return to the boiler, smaller pipe branches off to each baseboard then returns to the main loop. I made a diagram of what I want to do and I hope u can tell me if it will work if I can add it here. I am going to try and load it . lol it loaded but it is above this post and it loaded 2 times sorry
A monoflow system uses a large main loop with tees and smaller pipes going to & from each radiator.

Like this:
download.gif
Thanks Rob, I understand now and yes that is what I have now and the diagram is what I am going to do so I will have more than one zone, pump and thermostat All of you are a lot of help, not sure what I would do without you all so thanks again

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Wed. Feb. 01, 2017 4:11 am

I believe the monoflow system requires only a single circulator, and doesn't use conventional thermostats. It requires "monoflow tees" (diverter-tees) and "thermostatic valves"(TRV's). Way less expensive and less complex (read that, more reliable) than multiple circulators.

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/diverter-tee-q-and-a/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_radiator_valve

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/what-is-a-thermostatic-radiator-valve/
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Wed. Feb. 01, 2017 5:28 am

If the existing monoflow system is working well I would leave it as its own zone. Adding a few small radiators to it might be ok, but that huge sunroom you mentioned definitely needs to be on its own zone.

FirstcoalstokerRon
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Posts: 89
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Post Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 12:52 am

lsayre wrote:I believe the monoflow system requires only a single circulator, and doesn't use conventional thermostats. It requires "monoflow tees" (diverter-tees) and "thermostatic valves"(TRV's). Way less expensive and less complex (read that, more reliable) than multiple circulators.

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/diverter-tee-q-and-a/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostatic_radiator_valve

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/what-is-a-thermostatic-radiator-valve/

Thanks lsayre and Rob for the posts, both were a lot of help. I now know I have a monoflow system that splits about 30' from the boiler. It has one circulator, one thermostat, diverter-tees and no TRV's. Its a large main loop with (diverter-tees) and smaller pipes going to & from each radiator. Each radiator has a bleeder valve and an open/close valve that I am scared to open or close as they have not moved in over 50 years. I plan on two circulators and two thermostats so I can control the heat in each zone better. After that's done ill add a zone or two for the spa room and a dump zone. THANKS AGAIN radiator = fin-tube baseboard

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lsayre
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Posts: 12185
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 5:45 am

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:radiator = fin-tube baseboard
In the case for which within these few key words lies a coded, veiled, or subliminal whiff of doubt in need of affirmation (for the OP, or for any of this threads readers), all of the above will work for both cast iron and hot water baseboard radiators.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

User avatar
Rob R.
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Posts: 11342
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 6:00 am

One thing I should point out, "Monoflow" is the trade name of the system that Bell & Gossett developed. The technical name for this type of system is a diverter tee system. Taco had their own version of this, and there might be others.

Ron, my uncle's house has a system very similar to yours. His has a 1.25" line that comes out of the boiler and goes all the way down to the opposite end of the basement, from there it splits into two 1" lines which follow the perimeter of the house back to the boiler. If you wanted to control each half of the loop independently, you could do that with two zone valves and two thermostats.

FirstcoalstokerRon
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Posts: 89
Joined: Wed. Dec. 07, 2016 3:57 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Post Thu. Feb. 02, 2017 3:04 pm

lsayre wrote:
FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:radiator = fin-tube baseboard
In the case for which within these few key words lies a coded, veiled, or subliminal whiff of doubt in need of affirmation (for the OP, or for any of this threads readers), all of the above will work for both cast iron and hot water baseboard radiators.

Thanks for this post and all the other help u have given me it all is appreciated

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