Coal Gun S- 130 Install

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't.

lsayre wrote:
Do you mean a dump zone (that gets rid of excessive heat in the boiler) perhaps? Any existing zone can double as the dump zone, or you can set up a dedicated heat dump radiator. /quote

I have a dump zone figured out, I am going to run 1" copper to the radiator in the basement. I was referring to the bypass / primary loop used to heat the return water coming from the zones. I have seen diagrams pics and read and still don't understand is it gravity fed or does it need a circulator and does it go into the unused return tapping or into the return loop before it returns into the boiler?? Does a COAL GUN S-130 need one, at first it seem so simple but the more I read the more confused I get.

Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-3196-1-3-4-Bypass-Valve-4424000-p

I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.

The principle is to mix some degree of hot boiler water (via the bypass) with cold zone water on the return leg, so the boiler is not shocked or overwhelmed with the cold returning water. A primary/secondary arrangement accomplishes this by default.

lsayre wrote:Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-3196-1-3-4-Bypass-Valve-4424000-p

I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.

The principle is to mix some degree of hot boiler water (via the bypass) with cold zone water on the return leg, so the boiler is not shocked or overwhelmed with the cold returning water. A primary/secondary arrangement accomplishes this by default.

It seems that I posted a reply to lsayre's post that did not post. Did I do something wrong ? Is there some reason other than my stupidly that it did not post. I would post again just don't want to double post it.

Better post it again. It's not here.

lsayre wrote:Better post it again. It's not here.

LOL Ok thanks lsayre now all I have to do is think what I wrote and asked. I will redo it later but for now any ideas why it did not post ??

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:

lsayre wrote:Better post it again. It's not here.

LOL Ok thanks lsayre now all I have to do is think what I wrote and asked. I will redo it later but for now any ideas why it did not post ??

Whatever happened, it is on your end. I just looked in the moderator logs and nothing has happened here at this end. Blame it on solar flares and repost.

coaledsweat wrote:Whatever happened, it is on your end. I just looked in the moderator logs and nothing has happened here at this end. Blame it on solar flares and repost.

Better to blame it on solar flares than on my stupidity I will repost later and thanks.

lsayre wrote:Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).
I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.

Its the primary/secondary loop I am having trouble understanding. my supply comes off the top of the boiler and then I have 3 zones coming off the 1.25 pipe, each with a circulator, the last in line is a 90 degree elbow rather than a tee so the supply pipe does not return to the boiler till after it goes through one or all of the zones. My question is if I replace the 90 degree elbow with a tee and return it to the return loop just before it enters the bottom of the boiler what will stop the cooler water from the return being pulled into the heating zones when the circulators start to pump? Does the bypass loop need a circulator and/or a valve?? If the thermostats are not calling for heat and the water in the zone loops get cold how does the bypass loop heat them with out a pump?? Anyone have a simple diagram that I can understand??

This (admittedly poor drawing) shows a primary circulation loop with 3 secondary (user(s)) zone loops (each with its own circulator). My outline is pretty rudimentary, and I'm certain that others can expound upon the concept, and tell you how to improve the actual layout, but I believe this should work. At the very least each section will need flow-check valves, unless each circulator has one built in.

My initial guess is that the primary loop should be flowing at 6 to perhaps 9 GPM, and each secondary user/zone should be flowing at only about 2 to perhaps 3 GPM. Something along the lines of an 007 on the primary, and 005's on each secondary.

3/4" on the secondary loops, and 1" to 1-1/4" on the primary should work.

lsayre wrote:This (admittedly poor drawing) shows a primary circulation loop with 3 secondary (user(s)) zone loops (each with its own circulator). My outline is pretty rudimentary, and I'm certain that others can expound upon the concept, and tell you how to improve the actual layout, but I believe this should work. At the very least each section will need flow-check valves, unless each circulator has one built in.

Thanks only thing is my system pumps from the primary loop into the zones and then joins into a return loop that goes into the boiler, it does not return to the primary loop. All the circulators are in the secondary loop and there is no pump on the primary loop. Do I need to add one to circulate the hot boiler water back into the return line?? if so what turns it on ?? I understand how the diagram u sent works but as I said my return goes to the boiler not back into the primary loop and that's were I get confused as to how it works? Do I need a pump or valves to make it circulate?? I am sorry I am not able to understand this but got almost all the zones plumbed and heating with the elect boiler so ill finish with the install of the COAL GUN and will keep reading about the bypass and I can show a diagram if it will help, its not cute as yours but ill send if u want it Thanks again & I hope I am not becoming a pain in the butt.

A rudimentary sketch of your system would help us understand what you have.

Is your system more along the lines of this?

lsayre wrote:Is your system more along the lines of this?

The attachment 3_Zones.pdf is no longer available

Yes your diagram is close to the plumbing I have, ill try and post a diagram I made and I am sorry its not very good I hope u can understand it.

Where is "Sting"?

I'll go out on a limb here and say this can't be drawn correct.
In my mind, as drawn, the path of least resistance is staight out from Supply...back in to the Return...the emmiters are left COLD!

But, ya learn something new everyday