Coal Gun S- 130 Install
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I am in Rochester PA. I am new to coal burning as well as a new GOAL GUN owner, but I love both and would not have got it fired up if not for all the help I got from people in here.
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- Member
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- Joined: Wed. Dec. 07, 2016 3:57 pm
- Location: north west of Pitts Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
- Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite
MY BOILER IS INSTALLED THE COAL IS BURNING & THE HOUSE IS HOT
BUT I HAD/HAVE 3 PROBLEMS
1. GRAVITY FEEDING
I guess I am not explaining It right so I will try again. I had a monoflo system with only one circulator and one thermostat. The supply line split into two loops 1/2 way across the basement. Both being fed by the one circulator, the loop to the right went to the living room and the dinning room, the loop to the left went to the bedrooms and the bath room. I cut them apart at the spit and added a ball valve between them. I then ran a new 1 1/4 inch supply line between the top of the boiler and the split and then I added 2nd circulator so I now have two zones not just one. I installed a TAKO FLO CHEK in the each of the supply lines and the pipes between the boiler and the TAKO FLO CHEKS are hot and the pipes after them are cold. The gravity feeding stopped in both zones.
2. GHOST FLO
When one of the two zones is calling for heat the non pumping zone gets hot from the ball valve to where the two return lines join together before entering into the bottom of the boiler. I installed a check valve in both return lines just before they joined back together. When I shut one zone down it still got hot and stayed hot from the ball valve at the split to the return as long as one zone was pumping. The pipe got hot first at the ball valve and the last place it got hot was where the two returns joined together. Could the ball valve be leaking as I don't see any other place the hot water can cross over from one zone to the other.
3. BANGING NOISE IN THE PIPES IN THE LIVING ROOM
I have no idea what is causing it nor do have any idea what to do about it. I will appreciate any and all help, suggestions and/or advice I get from all of you concerning the 3 problems. THANKS AGAIN
BUT I HAD/HAVE 3 PROBLEMS
1. GRAVITY FEEDING
I guess I am not explaining It right so I will try again. I had a monoflo system with only one circulator and one thermostat. The supply line split into two loops 1/2 way across the basement. Both being fed by the one circulator, the loop to the right went to the living room and the dinning room, the loop to the left went to the bedrooms and the bath room. I cut them apart at the spit and added a ball valve between them. I then ran a new 1 1/4 inch supply line between the top of the boiler and the split and then I added 2nd circulator so I now have two zones not just one. I installed a TAKO FLO CHEK in the each of the supply lines and the pipes between the boiler and the TAKO FLO CHEKS are hot and the pipes after them are cold. The gravity feeding stopped in both zones.
2. GHOST FLO
When one of the two zones is calling for heat the non pumping zone gets hot from the ball valve to where the two return lines join together before entering into the bottom of the boiler. I installed a check valve in both return lines just before they joined back together. When I shut one zone down it still got hot and stayed hot from the ball valve at the split to the return as long as one zone was pumping. The pipe got hot first at the ball valve and the last place it got hot was where the two returns joined together. Could the ball valve be leaking as I don't see any other place the hot water can cross over from one zone to the other.
3. BANGING NOISE IN THE PIPES IN THE LIVING ROOM
I have no idea what is causing it nor do have any idea what to do about it. I will appreciate any and all help, suggestions and/or advice I get from all of you concerning the 3 problems. THANKS AGAIN
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It really sounds like you need to install a pair of header pipes and need to remove the check valves.
You come off the top of the steam chest with the hot water header pipe and Tee'd for both circulators and then plumb in the circulators for both zones.
The second header pipe is connected to the cold water return pipes and then it is piped to the boiler sump tapping.
Where is the new diaphragm expansion tank?? is it separated from the air scoop or is it attached to the air scoop in its bottom tapping?
As far as the banging in the pipes, "in my opinion" you apparently have a water hammer situation due to the check valves you installed that may eventually blow a pipe joint apart.
If you had a circulator with an internal check valve for each zone on a header pipe it would be better as the water would stop moving the very second that one or both circulators stopped after the demand was satisfied.
With the smaller expansion tank you have a smaller cushion of air versus the steel compression tank which used 1/3 of its volume for an air charge, in my case I have a 15 gallon steel compression tank and it has 5 gallons of air and 10 gallons of water in it. I wish I had a 30 gallon compression tank but I am very happy running my boiler at very low pressures 4-12 PSI on average to feed my single loop baseboard-which I hate anyway.
You come off the top of the steam chest with the hot water header pipe and Tee'd for both circulators and then plumb in the circulators for both zones.
The second header pipe is connected to the cold water return pipes and then it is piped to the boiler sump tapping.
Where is the new diaphragm expansion tank?? is it separated from the air scoop or is it attached to the air scoop in its bottom tapping?
As far as the banging in the pipes, "in my opinion" you apparently have a water hammer situation due to the check valves you installed that may eventually blow a pipe joint apart.
If you had a circulator with an internal check valve for each zone on a header pipe it would be better as the water would stop moving the very second that one or both circulators stopped after the demand was satisfied.
With the smaller expansion tank you have a smaller cushion of air versus the steel compression tank which used 1/3 of its volume for an air charge, in my case I have a 15 gallon steel compression tank and it has 5 gallons of air and 10 gallons of water in it. I wish I had a 30 gallon compression tank but I am very happy running my boiler at very low pressures 4-12 PSI on average to feed my single loop baseboard-which I hate anyway.
- Rob R.
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Banging noise could be from the pipes expanding as they get hot. Does it happen shortly after the circulator turns on?
Your ghost flow is probably a simple problem. Please post pictures of all the piping.
Your ghost flow is probably a simple problem. Please post pictures of all the piping.
- McGiever
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What does the system pressure look like while this banging is happening?
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lzaharis you have giving me a lot to think about and I thank you. I will let you know when and if I figure it all out. THANKS AGAIN!!
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- lsayre
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My zones tick, pop, creak, and occasionally bang with the coal boiler just as they did with the resistance boiler.
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
- Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite
Thanks Rob, I will try and post pictures and I will check to see when it bangs, it never did this in over 50 years so its something I did.
I have been reading about water hammering but its all over my head.
I will keep reading and hope I can figure it all out soon. THANKS AGAIN!!
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- Posts: 438
- Joined: Wed. Dec. 07, 2016 3:57 pm
- Location: north west of Pitts Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
- Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite
Does all that banging and such not upset you? Is there some way to stop it? It never banged until I split the one zone into two zones? Some of you have said it could burst the pipes apart, that has me worried. The pipes for the living room and the dinning room are in a crawl space. I have not been in it for many years.
- lsayre
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After 18 years of listening to it, I hardly notice it. My hearing is terrible though, and I'm sure that helps. My wife OTOH can hear the circulator running in the basement from anywhere upstairs. And she can hear the zone valves opening and closing.FirstcoalstokerRon wrote: ↑Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:47 pmDoes all that banging and such not upset you? Is there some way to stop it? It never banged until I split the one zone into two zones? Some of you have said it could burst the pipes apart, that has me worried. The pipes for the living room and the dinning room are in a crawl space. I have not been in it for many years.
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- Posts: 438
- Joined: Wed. Dec. 07, 2016 3:57 pm
- Location: north west of Pitts Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
- Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite
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- Member
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Wed. Dec. 07, 2016 3:57 pm
- Location: north west of Pitts Pa.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
- Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite
Rob I have 5 circulars 3 are TAKO 700'S and two are Bell & Gossett both are the same size. Only two are hooked up now for the two zones, the others are for the other 3 zones when it warms up. The the Bell & Gossett is pumping to zone one, the living room and the dinning room. The TAKO is pumping to zone two, the bedrooms and the bath room, is disconnected now because zone two is ghost feeding and the bedrooms and the bathroom are hot enough with out it pumping. As I said before when both are cold and 1 calls for heat the other gets hot also, and the one ghost feeding gets hot at the split first and the return last after it heats the bedrooms and the bath. When the weather is warm the house gets to be in the eighty's. I wonder if the ball valve at the split could be leaking, I have no idea what else it can be.
I hope I am not taking up to much of your time with my problems, but I would be lost with out all of your help! SO THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU !!!
- coaledsweat
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I don't know what you have done to the board's quote programing but if you don't get it fixed, you're off to the reindoctrination center for two weeks!