KA4 Project (Pic Heavy)

 
lzaharis
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Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Fri. Jan. 20, 2017 11:09 am

Invest in a Dust Deputy and your shop vac will work even better moving coal
and cleaning as the filter will last much longer.


 
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Rob R.
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Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Fri. Jan. 20, 2017 2:32 pm

Qtown1835 wrote:
Rob R. wrote:So now that you are into the wild world of stokers and hydronics, how do you like it?

You are an interesting case since you already had a hand fed stove and we're successfully moving the heat throughout the house.
So far so good. Other than moving the feed nut in the wrong direction to start...It has been easy. As a wise man once said, set it and forget it. I'm sure I will continue to mess with it a little to get coal consumption down, but overall I am pleased. Nice not having to feed the stove twice a day.

I'm working on getting a coal vac together and would like to get my 4th zone established for the garage.
Heat in the garage will be a nice treat, but expect quite a jump in your coal consumption.

How is the tankless coil performing for your hot water needs?

 
Qtown1835
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Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Fri. Jan. 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Rob R. wrote:
How is the tankless coil performing for your hot water needs?
Plenty of hot water. Dual hot showers, no problem. Its been nice.

 
Qtown1835
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Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Jan. 22, 2017 5:56 pm

Made a trip to Lehigh yesterday and picked up 2tn of bagged rice. Spent the remainder of the afternoon moving 4000# by hand. I told myself, it's only once, bulk from here on out. :)

I think 2 tons was a little ambitious. Wasn't terrible but I wouldn't want to do it daily.
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Yard was way to set to get bulk delivery and didn't want to chance tearing it up with my truck either, so I need to move it 3times.
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100 bags later I had my coal bunker in place.
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Bags were pretty clean. Only had 2 break at the heat seam during the move.

This afternoon I took some time and insulated the supply pipe. It actually increased the temp by about 8* on the thermometer.
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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sun. Jan. 22, 2017 6:08 pm

My dad's basement stays about 3 degrees cooler now that he insulated the boiler piping.

As long as your basement is not already too chilly for your liking, keep adding insulation to the piping (and boiler if you haven't already).

 
Qtown1835
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Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Jan. 22, 2017 7:42 pm

Some before and after insulation.

BEFORE AFTER
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Basement zone on a heat call
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Supply on right, return on left Return temp is about 124*

 
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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Jan. 22, 2017 7:59 pm

I put a piece of ceramic insulation on the firedoor on my EFM - it made a noticeable difference in the amount of heat radiating from the door.


 
Qtown1835
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Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Jan. 22, 2017 8:04 pm

Rob R. wrote:I put a piece of ceramic insulation on the firedoor on my EFM - it made a noticeable difference in the amount of heat radiating from the door.
The keystoker has insulation on the door. I replaced it when I painted it. It's just a piece of rock wool. I can't imagine how hot the door would be without it!

 
Qtown1835
Member
Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 9:51 am

So the boiler has been cooking away nicely without issue; ;however, I am finally through the remainder of the TSC rice I was burning and now I am into the new Lehigh rice. I am finding that the feed rate and/or air may not be right for the new Lehigh coal. I have a fair amount of unburned coal on the top of the ash. To remedy this I was thinking about backing off the feed rate a little and opening up the air feed a little bit. Does that sound right?

Also, there are times that I get temperature overshoot. Not sure why it happens? I was set at 160/180 12*diff. and I would randomly get high temps of 195*+/-. I just dropped the TA settings to 140/160 with a 12*diff to see what happens.

 
lzaharis
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Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 11:19 am

Is that A typo??? Your high limit should be 160 and low limit 140.

If you have it set like that its causing you problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if the high limit is 160 and low limit is 140 all you need to do now is back it off two full turns and wait. You will find like I did that the fire will get too hot otherwise.

I have my KAA-4-1 set at 15 threads and 160 high 140 low with a 15 degree differential and it barely runs with the hold fire timer set with 12 pins at zero and 12 pins at 15 minutes

 
Qtown1835
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Posts: 705
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Quakertown, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Coal Size/Type: WAS Lehigh Rice (TBD)
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Post by Qtown1835 » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 11:35 am

lzaharis wrote:Is that A typo??? Your high limit should be 160 and low limit 140.

If you have it set like that its causing you problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if the high limit is 160 and low limit is 140 all you need to do now is back it off two full turns and wait. You will find like I did that the fire will get too hot otherwise.

I have my KAA-4-1 set at 15 threads and 160 high 140 low with a 15 degree differential and it barely runs with the hold fire timer set with 12 pins at zero and 12 pins at 15 minutes
Was 160/180, now is 140/160. I have 3 pins at 0, 10 and 20 min.

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 11:50 am

For what its worth,
I learned the hard way and that is why I have 12 pins at zero time
and 12 pins at 15 minutes. I have had no issues since I changed
the timers hold fire time and length.

I have only lost the fire once due to a power glitch.
its easier to have a longer hold fire with lower temperatures as the
boiler takes less time to create the heat needed and the boiler does
not overshoot or dump heat.

 
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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 7:01 pm

Temperature overshoots are a symptom of the feed rate being too high for the load, or stratification within the boiler (who was that guy that suggested you circulate through the oil boiler and enjoy a stable system temperature? :whistle: ). If you are having problems with significant temperature overshoots, your feed rate is likely too high for the load, the timer cycle is too long...maybe both. I would reduce the feed rate slightly - this should give you longer cycle times and a better chance at burning the coal thoroughly. Turn up the heat in the morning and give the stoker a nice 30 minute burn...the fire should almost reach the last set of air holes on the grates. If it falls short, you can reduce the air slightly. A lot of people crank up the air in an effort to burn the coal to 100% ash. This does improve the appearance of the ash, but it also blows a lot of air through ash on the grates...which sends more BTU's to the chimney.

Lehigh coal is harder than average, and low in volatiles. Longer burn times will help, and you may need to tweak the timer cycle a little. Be patient, and do not make large adjustments. If you are using the timer cycle that Keystoker recommends, leave that alone for now.
lzaharis wrote:Is that A typo??? Your high limit should be 160 and low limit 140.

If you have it set like that its causing you problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if the high limit is 160 and low limit is 140 all you need to do now is back it off two full turns and wait. You will find like I did that the fire will get too hot otherwise.

I have my KAA-4-1 set at 15 threads and 160 high 140 low with a 15 degree differential and it barely runs with the hold fire timer set with 12 pins at zero and 12 pins at 15 minutes
Leon, you have a different boiler, different stoker, and a different timer, so note that your settings will not align. Also, I don't agree with your statement that high limit of 180 will cause problems in itself. Keystoker recommends 160/180 for winter operation.

 
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StokerDon
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Location: PA, Southern York County!
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Jan. 26, 2017 7:37 pm

I love that thermal camera app! It almost makes me wish I had a smart phone!
Qtown1835 wrote:Made a trip to Lehigh yesterday and picked up 2tn of bagged rice. Spent the remainder of the afternoon moving 4000# by hand. I told myself, it's only once, bulk from here on out.
Nice score. Be sure to split some of those bags open so the coal dries out. Bagged coal is usually quite wet, wet coal in the hopper will cause you problems.

-Don

 
lzaharis
Member
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Ithaca, New York
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused

Post by lzaharis » Fri. Jan. 27, 2017 8:26 pm

Hello Rob,

His K-4 is only different in the fact that it is not a
dual fuel unit as far as I know and he has 35 gallons of water and
the AA model Pocono 3 grate wide stoker that I have I do believe.
Last edited by lzaharis on Sat. Jan. 28, 2017 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.


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