Where to Install Circulators

Here's a post where some fellow members educated me about how Triple Aquastats worked.

CoalisCoolxWarm @ Triple Aquastat Troubleshooting Urgent Help- Solved!

Here are wiring diagrams for my Keystoker KA-6.
If you had the same model I do, all you'd have to do is copy the wiring. Yours will likely be very close, if you're setup with some of the same equipment in a similar manner

What boiler are you installing?

There are circ. pumps with ECM motors that are very smart and thrifty but there are some electronics involved.
There have been prior discussions of some details...give the SEARCH feature a try.

Well I've got a taco 007 from my dead oil furnace, so I'll be using that for my 1st manifold.
I've got another tac OK circulator attached to the boiler that came with the purchase, have to look at the model # when I get home.

jrv8984 wrote:Well I've got a taco 007 from my dead oil furnace, so I'll be using that for my 1st manifold.
I've got another tac OK circulator attached to the boiler that came with the purchase, have to look at the model # when I get home.

Cool. Did you mention which boiler you are installing? Maybe in a different thread I didn't read?

You'd do well to do a more detailed sketch, choose where your components go, etc before you start plumbing and wiring.

If you like, the folks here can easily review it and offer any tips or suggestions.

It's an AHS 260. So I've got two taco 007's, which is fine for my zones, but are they capable of moving the water 125' through 1.25 pap?

jrv8984 wrote:It's an AHS 260. So I've got two taco 007's, which is fine for my zones, but are they capable of moving the water 125' through 1.25 pap?

It depends. What is the change in elevation and any items that cause resistance?

Keep in mind, these are CIRCULATORS, not pumps. They get water returned at close to the same volume/pressure as it sends it out...less any resistance items.

Here's a primer on circulators: https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/PumpCurves.pdf

And another one on selecting which version to use: https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf

...or...you could post up your design details and such and let the guys here review and tell you if they think you are okay or need any changes

I'm pretty confident in my system knowledge- up to a point. I listen and ask questions, get opinions, ask more questions, then decide what to do. Sometimes it's educational to sit back and read the discussions between the experienced folks. Good way to learn.

You are running 125 FEET of piping at 1.25" copper, right? That may be a bit much for a 007. A 011 is just like a 007, but handles more head. But...that being said, I am not an expert on circulators and would like to hear what some others think about it

Pex al pex is 1.25" inner dia. There could be 8-12' elevation between the boiler and the distribution in the house. Once in the house, eventually all 3 floors will be heated, plus the basement.
260k BTU, 56 gallon boiler capacity.

Should the zone circulators push the water through the radiators, or pull it through?

My 1 Taco 007 is pushing water thru almost 600' of 1" pex & that same loop runs thru 2 water to water plate heat exchangers,been doing this for over 8 yrs.

jrv8984 wrote:Pex al pex is 1.25" inner dia. There could be 8-12' elevation between the boiler and the distribution in the house. Once in the house, eventually all 3 floors will be heated, plus the basement.
260k BTU, 56 gallon boiler capacity.

Should the zone circulators push the water through the radiators, or pull it through?

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Is there any reason in particular that you have not thought about a one pipe steam system or a gravity hot water heating system with the boiler in the basement as you intend to use all three floors?

The cast iron radiators can or will have their own thermostats on their vents or you could have a central thermostat as is done in many homes with one pipe steam systems using 2 pounds of steam pressure as well as gravity hot water systems.

I hope you order the two books I mentioned to you.

You have to get the radiators in place and decide how your going to plumb them and whether your going to use original Phelps Tees or Eureka tees, or Honeywell Tees or O.S. Fittings for a one pipe system or Honeywell Unique Valve in a two pipe system to control the flow of hot water heat to the rooms you want to heat individually and allow a system to bypass a radiator or radiators for a two pipe system or use pex with radiator vent mounted manual thermostats.

If you keep the radiators on the interior walls it reduces horizontal piping runs and returns the cool water to the boiler with less plumbing for faster reheating.

You also need to know how much water your entire system will need and have to have so you have enough hot water.

A gravity hot water system would work well with a three floor home if you put the boiler in the basement with a common hot water riser pipe to the top floor and all the radiator return runs go to a common cold water gravity fed down pipe to the boiler sump-Simply using the heat of the boiler to move the hot water by simply letting the heat rise to the top floor and gravity brings it back to the boiler sump all the while making hot water at a low temperature with no circulators.

The basement hot water radiators would be fed from the boiler first and then the hot water would rise to the the other floors and eventually return the cooler water to the boiler using a common return header.

Copper pipe is used for single pipe steam heating now to save work and time and you can hang steam radiators on a wall or ceiling joist in the basement too.

Each radiator will get it's own supply and return coming off of the manifolds.
Putting the boiler in the basement wasn't an option, it had to go in the garage.
There are no interior walls on the 1st floor to run piping to subsequent floors it's one large room, with an 18" stone wall between it and the kitchen
I was going to use manifold's similar to this.

Not trying to spend your money;

Keep in mind that each cast iron radiator is going to store a lot of heat and release it slowly for you.

If you renovation is going to this extent would an excavated basement room next to the current basement be an option for a coal room and the boiler? It would let you run a Westfield auger from a dog house to the A130 hopper and take advantage of the AHS option of having a photocell to control the auger and fill the hopper as needed??

The issue of ash baskets would have to be dealt with of course and the separate basement boiler room would pacify the insurance heathens and the coal bin would be right next to the boiler.

A vertical and horizontal utility chase can be made to look lovely and still be able to access the piping in it by installing hinges and hooks to lock the bottom boards shut.

Creating the look of a very large load bearing beam with upright passages at opposite ends of the chase to allow hot vertical pipe runs and cold returns or single pipe steam would be easy to do and pleasant looking if painted or stained.

I was only thinking that with the Logostore pipe being $25.00+ a foot would get pretty daunting after a while. I believe you said the piping run would be 125 feet+ so that would mean an additional 250 feet of pipe run for hot water in and cold water return for $3,125.00 plus the cost of sand,trench excavation and back filling for the trench and the direct burial cable plus the two runs of schedule 80 conduit for control wiring and power wiring if the garage has no electric service. The costs mushroom and I can tell you that from my personal experience.

My only thinking is that piping simplicity is your friend and distance from the heating appliance is a costly enemy.

I hope you have time to provide a drawing of the property and the garage so we have more of an idea of what you are dealing with only so we can help you.

$10-$12/foot for the underground pex,no need for 220 power to the boiler ,1 -20 amp breaker would likely be plenty.

So much of this is going to depend on the local plumbing codes
and the electrical and plumbing inspectors. Power surges and
brown outs are a possible issue affecting the system.
If he has a service entrance in the garage all will be well if
they allow it to be installed there as it cannot be a true automobile
garage unless the boiler room is walled off with a steel fire door
if I remember the code correctly.

The closed cell foam oxygen barrier green logostore pex is more
expensive per foot, but it is the best insulated and paired
pex piping as I understand it to be.

It would be worth his time to have a B+G or Taco technical representative
come by his home and go through his desired system to provide him with
the right design help he needs to avoid problems and that way it is done
and done right the first time with the system being engineered by B+G or
TACO.

Electrical & plumbing inspectors ?????????????????????????

To install a heating system ????????????
Taco rep to do the engineering ?????????
Izzy,you get the highest trophy for complicating a project !!!!!!!!!

I initially installed my system with an OWB in Sept. 2006,it heated hot water +2 buildings,in Dec 2007 we added 1 more building hot water & heat,in Oct.2014,i changed the fire from the OWB to a coal fired EFM520,still operating the same system.
No plumber or electrical inspectors or Taco engineers were involved with the design of my system .

I'm already having 700 ft of water line installed for our animals, digging an extra 90 ft from the house to the garage is nothing.

Chimney is already built in the garage, the PAP is going to be spray foamed into the trench I. The next couple of weeks.