LL AA-220 Relocation

Rob R.
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Post By: Rob R. » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 9:53 am

Putting up a chimney is not something new - just find an experienced mason and get their opinion on the best way to do it.

I would request vermiculate between the flue tile and block.

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 11:26 am

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 9:53 am
Putting up a chimney is not something new - just find an experienced mason and get their opinion on the best way to do it.

I would request vermiculate between the flue tile and block.
Yes, no way in hell would I put up anything but masonry.....anything else would look like crap!

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hotblast1357
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Post By: hotblast1357 » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 12:12 pm

Well I said u like steel! Lol

Yes on vermiculite also, I put it in mine when I did it.

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 3:09 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 12:12 pm
Well I said u like steel! Lol

Yes on vermiculite also, I put it in mine when I did it.
Fo sho! My shop has a 30' 8" pipe for chimney....been there since '74! Need to put a boiler there!

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McGiever
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Post By: McGiever » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 4:03 pm

Really, a mason and a helper could do block with liner start to finish for a day's wages.

Pay them and have a few beers as you watch from a chaise lounge in a shady spot...sheeze!

Rob R.
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Post By: Rob R. » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 4:44 pm

I am surprised that old house doesn't have a nice brick chimney up through the middle already.

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hotblast1357
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Post By: hotblast1357 » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 5:35 pm

As many have said, putting up the actual tile and blocks aren’t rocket science..

More of a pain to remove siding and Eve sections of the two roofs, and digging out next to the foundation down deep enough and cutting through that wall for the flue entrance and clean out door entrance..

Biggest thing when stack chimney block is making sure that it has enough time to cure... as you get high enough, there is some much weight pushing down on the blocks beneath, that if the mortar inbetween each block hasn’t cured enough, it will squish out under the weight..

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 7:22 am

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 4:44 pm
I am surprised that old house doesn't have a nice brick chimney up through the middle already.
Funny you say that... in that exact spot were I want to put it, I tore out a brick chimney when I bought the house in 2001. I grew up burning wood and hated the work involved and the mess that comes with a free standing stove in the house. Told my new wife that no way were we going to burn wood. Funny how things work out but don't fret, it was only a 6 or 8", I need a 10 so it wouldn't have worked anyway. The footer for that chimney is setting on the side of my barn, ran into it while digging the basement for the addition!

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 7:31 am

McGiever wrote:
Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 4:03 pm
Really, a mason and a helper could do block with liner start to finish for a day's wages.

Pay them and have a few beers as you watch from a chaise lounge in a shady spot...sheeze!
You know I have an old friend that is a mason, actually my builder subcontracted him to block my basement walls which he did on the side. He is a 20 year Journeyman bricklayer out of a local hall so I need to contact him. Definitely be my best bet.

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 10:01 am

Lets start a new conversation....... have 2 scenarios....1 buy a small boiler to install in the barn to use as a secondary in times of need (like this past weekend with more to come) or just a large boiler to do everything from the barn. I am really sick of mess and not having enough boiler to do the job. Having the bulk coal in the basement and spending on coal vacs and still getting some dust is not getting it. This stuff is so dusty I get a cloud if I scoop a 5 gallon pail.......and then there's the other problem of boiler not keeping up on windy days and the cost of trying to put up a masonry chimney. #2 is just buy a larger boiler that can handle the job and move back out to the barn. I can easily install my own chimney for just material cost since I won't have to remove all siding and go through 2 different overhangs. The only thing I don't like about #2 is the 1" pex going into the house BUT it did work with my OWB so if I had enough boiler it will work. Just hate laying in bed and listening to the propane furnace fire up. Love the heat in the basement but sick of mess and lack of boiler! I could still use my manifold setup with the circulators and controls, just constantly circulate (like I am now anyways) and with the controller only one runs at a time. Ready, set, GO!

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lsayre
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Post By: lsayre » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 10:31 am

Did you put your monster circulator back in on the barn loop as I suggested before assessing failure and attributing it to a boiler that is too small? If you recall, I had determined that a good part of your failure to heat the barn was the use of a Grundfos 15-58 in conjunction with using 0.863" ID PEX for your long underground run. There isn't much you can do about the PEX, so you need to go massively up-scale with the circulator on this loop.

The alternative is to buy a bigger boiler and find that nothing changes. As I suggested once before, and will suggest again: Remain focused on the plight of the guy with the 350,000 BTUH boiler who can't get more than about 40,000 BTUH from it to pass through his house loop. Substitute "barn" for "house" to get a picture that hits closer to home.

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Post By: lzaharis » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 10:43 am

I guess you could sell the LL220, stove pipe and power venter and look at an Axeman Anderson 130S or 260S and put it in the barn and simply build a bin to with a dog house to feed the auger that feeds the tube that delivers the coal to the traveling grate.

The stove pipe for both unit the 130S and 260S is much smaller in diameter and does not require a power venter. You would want to use solid half block and good mortar for a base for either of the Axeman Anderson coal stokers to provide a proper seal and to allow the view port cover plate to work correctly.

You could fill the new bin made from the old lumber with the bobcat and just let the auger tube move coal from the dog house and up into the tube and into the rolling grate in the firebox.
You could reuse all the lumber you used in the basement in the barn for a new bin so it would not have to be destroyed/thrown in a burn pile.
You would need an 8" by 8" by 15 foot tall chimney for the 130S with the 5 inch flue and Barometric Damper or a 12" by 12" by 15 foot tall chimney for the 260S for the 6 inch flue pipe and the 6" Barometric Damper.

You would be able to use 110 volt power and a heavy power cord to a 30 amp outlet and you could use a generator to power it in the event of a power loss.

The Axeman units come standard with the offset electric motor that uses V belts to spin the combustion fan and also power the gearbox that powers the chain drive for the auger tube to feed the traveling grate in the firebox.

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hotblast1357
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Post By: hotblast1357 » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 10:52 am

I think we should let larry try to straighten this out with his idea of a bigger circulator first.

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swyman
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Post By: swyman » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 11:26 am

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 10:31 am
Did you put your monster circulator back in on the barn loop as I suggested before assessing failure and attributing it to a boiler that is too small? If you recall, I had determined that a good part of your failure to heat the barn was the use of a Grundfos 15-58 in conjunction with using 0.863" ID PEX for your long underground run. There isn't much you can do about the PEX, so you need to go massively up-scale with the circulator on this loop.

The alternative is to buy a bigger boiler and find that nothing changes. As I suggested once before, and will suggest again: Remain focused on the plight of the guy with the 350,000 BTUH boiler who can't get more than about 40,000 BTUH from it to pass through his house loop. Substitute "barn" for "house" to get a picture that hits closer to home.
Larry please understand that I am not disregarding your advice, I thank you for all that you have and in the future to come but I believe I have a sound argument that this layout did work with the outdoor wood boiler. I have not yet installed the monster circulator, just been to lazy as everything has been working as it should until we finally got frigid temps. I guess I don't know how much boiler it would take as my OWB was a 500k BTU and even if my furnace fan ran nonstop the boiler temps would keep up. This boiler falls off with frequent heat calls when the wind blows and propane furnace has to supplement. Now yesterday morning I woke up to -8 degrees, no wind condition and boiler to my surprise was in idle fire sitting at 190 degrees? I will get that circulator installed for sake of argument and see if this changes things....( haven't see you be wrong yet) even though I am not running the fan on that modine, just circulating. It did get down to 38 degrees in there but felt like 60 in these frigid temps. Usually it will stay around 45 in the barn just circulating. Also have to hookup that relay in garage that NEPA encouraged me to do, wire is ran, just need to terminate so garage circulator shuts off when there is a heatcall in the house. Just very frustrated when I read these pots from HB and our new member BSP when they are only using a couple bags of coal and opening the windows to sleep! Pat has to be heating as much as me and that boiler is limping along. I am scrambling trying to throw more coal to mine, pulling off refractory lid and sweeping fly ash trying to get max heat transfer and still falling short. Then I have all this black dust over everything!

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lsayre
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Post By: lsayre » Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 11:30 am

Was the monster circulator installed back when you had the monster boiler? Perhaps to the degree that things worked back then was attributable to the circulator and not the boiler. I'm just trying to get you to focus. You already have the circulator. The cost of proving that it isn't the answer (or isn't enough of the answer) will be far less than going back to ground zero and starting over.

The real answer of course is to install 1-1/4" ID pipe underground.
Last edited by lsayre on Tue. Jan. 22, 2019 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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