LL AA-220 Relocation

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lsayre
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Posts: 16651
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 7:27 am

You might also want to consider adding a thermostatic mixing valve to your boiler return line so it mixes boiler output and return and mitigates the temperature drops that are kicking on the propane boiler.

Either that, or install a well insulated 60-80 gallon 'buffer' tank to try and accomplish the mitigation.

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:08 am

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 7:04 am
Why not set the propane boiler to come on only if the AA-220 hits 145 degrees? Give the AA-220 a chance to recover before resorting to propane.
I could do that but the only reason it didn't keep up is because I turned it down thinking it would. I could turn the safety circuit (I guess you'd call it that?) down but I thought it would be better to keep the boiler hotter?

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:12 am

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 7:27 am
You might also want to consider adding a thermostatic mixing valve to your boiler return line so it mixes boiler output and return and mitigates the temperature drops that are kicking on the propane boiler.

Either that, or install a well insulated 60-80 gallon 'buffer' tank to try and accomplish the mitigation.
Don't yet see a need since it has proven to keep up with settings turned up.

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:23 am

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 6:58 am
No one (including you) actually knows that your 220,000 input BTUH boiler only puts out half of its manufacturer rating. If it actually did, it seems as if you would have a valid legal claim against its manufacturer. If you are fully confident that it is only half the boiler you paid for, why not take them to court and have them make it right?
We know that I have not been able to move more than 10lbs/hour with buckwheat and you have kindly done the math for me. I really don't see a court battle since it has been 3 years and now all of a sudden I file a lawsuit? I'm not a lawyer but doesn't sound like it would favor me. Only thing that would favor me is my ignorance as I just now now for sure that it does not put out what it is supposed to according to how much it can burn per hour. I will see in the coming months if it ever gets cold to know if it will keep up on buck. Just don't know anything about lawsuits and to me it seems it will only cost me more money and time...2 things I don't have to spare. Court battle, I live 7 hours away, does not sound like fun.

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lsayre
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Posts: 16651
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:26 am

Small claims court. File in your home town. If you win they must pay all of your legal expenses. If you lose you pay theirs and yours.

But someone already pointed out that you can't simply run raw unburned coal off the beds and into the ash tub in order to weigh it over a one hour period as the pushers are not designed to move that much weight and you will get a false low indication of the stokers capability, so whatever I or anyone else (including you) may have previously surmised was negated by this revelation.

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:58 am

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 8:26 am
Small claims court. File in your home town. If you win they must pay all of your legal expenses. If you lose you pay theirs and yours.

But someone already pointed out that you can't simply run raw unburned coal off the beds and into the ash tub in order to weigh it over a one hour period as the pushers are not designed to move that much weight and you will get a false low indication of the stokers capability, so whatever I or anyone else (including you) may have previously surmised was negated by this revelation.
I have a hour meter on it now so I guess I could wait till it gets really cold so it's running hard and get a more accurate assessment. I would rather spend the money on another used boiler than try to go to court. To me it is not worth it, my house, hot water, garage and barn are warm. May not be getting all that's advertised but all the changes I have made under the recommendations and supervision from you guys work under the conditions I have. I would like to tweak it just a little more.....just think if the fun we could have if I added another boiler! Could call it " Shane's mini boiler farm"! Don is king!

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lsayre
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Posts: 16651
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:42 am

But if your problems still reside on the distribution side another boiler will not solve anything. You have to debug all of the distribution issues before you should consider another boiler. Stay focused on the plight of the guy with the 350,000 BTUH boiler that should be able to heat 3 homes like his, but can't even come close to sufficiently heating only his home.

Small claims doesn't use attorneys. It's just you against them. Cost is low.

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 10:52 am

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 9:42 am


Small claims doesn't use attorneys. It's just you against them. Cost is low.
I am by no means knowledgeable enough to make those accusations, can't do it.

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CapeCoaler
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Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post By: CapeCoaler » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 11:04 am

Pick a cold day you have off from work...
Open a few windows so there will always be a load...
Top off bin on boiler with the buck...
run fully loaded for 10 hours...
weigh buck you put in to bin to bring back to top off...
Then you will know...
Have you lengthened the threaded rod yet to get more throw...
What say LL about all this...

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 1:40 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 11:04 am

Have you lengthened the threaded rod yet to get more throw...
What say LL about all this...
I did not add threads to the rod. I lost efficiency in the power vent after doing the thanksgiving clean up. It is back to running sweet since I cleaned it last weekend with the air compressor. I have it throttled down with the rheostat and is pulling nice.
Have not contacted LL, I honestly don't even know how to start the conversation.....just look through this thread, there are so many variables with setup. I have taken so many steps through the help of this forum and about all of them are because I am like many who do not have the background in heating or know anything about burning coal....but I am learning. If I get nasty with LL it would not take much to shut me up as there are still things I am probably not doing right? Without them physically coming to my house and seeing my setup and saying " yes this is a correct installation" how do I have a leg to stand on? Hell, my coil in the duct is to large for the rating of the boiler. Just feel it is a battle I cannot win and they are a proven company with lots of experience and have tested these units and they are UL listed so that should mean they are legit? I am just a Millwright/fabricator that knows enough to get in trouble and I like to tinker.

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lsayre
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Posts: 16651
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post By: lsayre » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 6:08 pm

swyman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 10:52 am
I am by no means knowledgeable enough to make those accusations, can't do it.
Then my plan here has worked as intended. You have gone from a position of telling us with confidence that everyone knows your boiler is only working at half capacity to admitting that you have no confidence in what you said. Now that this distraction is out of the way, lets move on to solving your issues.

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swyman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 6:38 am

I think I may have stumbled upon something else last night while looking at the fire. This is just a theory but I try to make sure that I get all I can out of the coal so I usually leave about 2" of ash on the stoker bed before falling into the ash pan. There are still 1 or 2 rows of air holes that far in. I noticed some of the ash getting blown upward. LL says leave an inch of ash and at that point there is no more air holes and my point is could I be getting more fly ash because of this? I adjusted again last night to try and get closer to that 1" mark but boiler was in idle fire this morning before I left. What ya think? Just hard to look onto that stoker bed and see red coal that close to the edge.

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nepacoal
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck
Location: NEPA

Post By: nepacoal » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 6:46 am

I marked the last row of holes on the side of my stoker and adjusted it to have all ash right past the last row. Ended up being about 1 to 1.5 inches. Just looking at the ashes without knowing exactly where the last row is, is often misleading. I always get a bit of clinkering at the end that skews the measurement. Once I marked it, I was able to accurately adjust the stoker right past the last row. And yes, I think you would get more fly ash with 2 rows of holes blowing through ash.

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swyman
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Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line AA-220
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice/Buck
Location: Blissfield, MI

Post By: swyman » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 6:53 am

nepacoal wrote:
Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 6:46 am
I marked the last row of holes on the side of my stoker and adjusted it to have all ash right past the last row. Ended up being about 1 to 1.5 inches. Just looking at the ashes without knowing exactly where the last row is, is often misleading. I always get a bit of clinkering at the end that skews the measurement. Once I marked it, I was able to accurately adjust the stoker right past the last row. And yes, I think you would get more fly ash with 2 rows of holes blowing through ash.
I will get it there and take a picture tonight so you guys can see if it looks right.

lzaharis
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice/buck mix
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
Location: Ithaca, New York

Post By: lzaharis » Mon. Dec. 31, 2018 10:00 am

Hello swyman,

I have a solid 2 inches of ash on my flat bed stoker without any fly ash blowing through it with 14 threads out. You need to slow the stokers down another thread.
The bed of ash will always be heavy enough that the mat it creates will fall off in small chunks and your fire will still be very good.

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