LL AA-220 Relocation

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 7:46 am

https://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/Fibergl ... n-SSL-ASJ/

https://expressinsulation.com/collections/pipe-in ... insulation

The fiberglass insulation with the foil wrapper is easy to work with. Make sure you get the right size - copper and iron pipe are sized differently.

Thanks Rob, that is the stuff I was looking for that I see in factories. Looks really nice when completed, well maybe not with me installing it! I know installing insulation has it's own trade.

swyman wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 7:38 am

Now I got it! And I don't think I will ever have to worry about shutting off during a heat when the house calls for heat but with these new settings my temp is staying above 170 which has never happened! We will see when the weather gets colder with wind....having 9 minute heat calls this morning and I also heard the boiler go into idle fire, this is a year of firsts! Old man weather wants to challenge me today as it is snowing and I need to get out in the yard and fix that vault heat loss. Well, gotta go shut down that circulator and isolate that loop...eerrrrr maybe I should just go to church with the wife!

Once you get the garage loop on a thermostat, you may see it shut off at HL during a garage heat call. That Modine is only 50k, right?

Yes nepa.......well this is going to be the later mother bear i thought it would...i feel i can do not have enough room to properly seal around the existing thermalpex since i used conctrete to seal up the vault! So back to plan A and remove the vault and section my larger piece in. Time to wake the boys up and they can finish digging while i go to menards and get supplies! Hopefully they will be done when i get back?

Foam board the inside walls and put a foam board hat on it...
Expand foam the side joints...
Put a nice rope or metal handle on the hat...
But the frost may heave the vault...
Without the heat loss keeping the surrounding soil thawed...

Insulating vertical walls...

Use technology info from insulating basement walls and slabs. Vertical foamboard is best, but sometimes you cannot dig down the entire wall. So what do you do? Go HORIZONTAL!

I tried to find my saved diagram, but not yet...so this is from memory.

Horizontal insulation (perpendicular to the vertical wall) can be substituted at...2:1...so every 2 feet horizontal equals 1 foot of vertical depth insulation substitute. The 2:1 is what

So if your vault is 1.5 ft deep, you can either insulate the bottom and the sides with 2" foamboard, including the bottom and top (foil inside would be helpful with heat as a radiant barrier, but the yellowish foamboard at the big box stores ABSORBS water, so avoid it outdoors)...

Or insulate under your pipe inside the vault and lay 54" of 2 inch thick foamboard on the ground around the vault. Or use however much you think is appropriate.

If *I* were making a guideline for the physics of it, I'd say make a diagram and draw an upside down triangle with the vertical wall as one side, the horizontal as the base, and 30 degree angle from the base to the tip of the triangle (bottom of the vertical wall)- adjust the base length (horizontal insulation board ) so the base of the vertical wall intersects, to find your horizontal insulation width required.

Shallow walls may require 45 degree angle for the first 3 feet. After that you get some 'help' from the geothermal mass of the earth below 36"

But if you are going to dig, make it deeper so you can put 2" foam board under the vault, extend it beyond the walls and insulate the OUTSIDE of the vault with same. Use the white foil lined insulation inside the vault with the foil facing inward.

While you're at it, line the hole all around with gravel so any water in the ground stays drained out of the hole.

That would be my best plan

Make sure you get us some pics of what you do. Good luck!

I went the hard way and it sucked as bad as I thought it would. I feel this was the best way and if this doesn't fix my delta then I will stay on the lookout for a stoker stove. Boiler isn't gonna get any love today...I'm pooped!

Is that a pool?...
In the first photo...

Nice work! How deep is the pex?

What leads you to feel that modifying a roughly 3 foot section of a roughly 480 foot loop is going to improve the loops Delta-T?

What was this section like before the modification? How is it different now? And how is that going to noticeably change the Delta-T of this zone?

If you simply install your 2400-20 circulator on your long run loop you will provide the barn Modine with all of the BTUH it is rated for.

Larry, it was cooking the snow over the box. Even if not the total solution, it is an improvement.

Rob R. wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Larry, it was cooking the snow over the box. Even if not the total solution, it is an improvement.

Ah, I understand now. The static or inherent 'base line' Delta-T is being improved. Not the Delta-T due to the user (the Modine).

This zone still requires the 2400-20 circulator though.

CapeCoaler wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 5:28 pm

Is that a pool?...
In the first photo...

Yes

Olllotj wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 5:32 pm

Nice work! How deep is the pex?

I installed at Central boilers recommended depth of 18"

lsayre wrote: ↑

Sun. Nov. 18, 2018 6:03 pm

What leads you to feel that modifying a roughly 3 foot section of a roughly 480 foot loop is going to improve the loops Delta-T?

What was this section like before the modification? How is it different now? And how is that going to noticeably change the Delta-T of this zone?

If you simply install your 2400-20 circulator on your long run loop you will provide the barn Modine with all of the BTUH it is rated for.

I felt this change needed done since it melted the snow off the lid of the vault.....obviously there is a major heat loss there. I used to have it wrapped in insulation but when I decided I wasn't going to try and heat the pool I got the bright idea of taking off the insulation and spray foaming the whole thing and that is when I started melting snow off the lid. RIght now I am not worried about heat output of the modine, I just wanted to see if I can bring down that delta on that loop.

18" depth may not be below your local regions "frost line".

For example, the frost line for the Medina, Ohio area (a few miles north of me) is 38". In Columbus, Ohio it is 32". In Cleveland, Ohio it is 42".