Coalpail.com Forum

As some of you know, I have recently installed a Yellow Flame coal stoker boiler heating my garage and house. Somewhere in the removal, loading, driving 120 miles, unloading and installing, the domestic hot water coil was broken. Now the questions;

Is it possible to remove this DHW coil? It looks like 4 1/2" thread, been in there for 40+ years.

Before I remove it, is there a new DHW coil available to replace it? It is a Taco 4T30.

An internet search for "Taco water coil 4T30" turned up nothing.

Thank you for your help,

-Don

Try Tunnessen Radiator. They are located in Hazelton, Pa. Telephone : 570-454-1161. You could take some detailed measurements and see if a tankless coil from Keystoker is the same size.

Removing that old coil is going to be a job. If it won't come out with just a big pipe wrench, plan B is a rosebud torch...plan C is cutting it and collapsing the threads. For the first attempt I would just depressurize the boiler and leave it full of water...you will be able to put a lot more leverage on it without the boiler moving. If you decide to heat it, obviously you will have to drain the water down below the coil.

Thanks for the advice Rob. I think I can get my big pipe wench on it, hopefuly I won't need a rosebud, that would require a new paint job.

I think i'm at the tail end of heating season, will be shutting down sometime in the next few weeks. I'm just trying to get a handle on what I need to do to get DHW out of this thing.

I was talking to "WoodHog" about DHW, he has a coil mounted in his Koker Lite. He is going to build a solar colector to heat DHW in the non-coal heating months. As we were talking about building a heat exchanger, basicly a box that you circulate your solar heated water through, put a coil in it and run your DHW through that. I realized that a boiler with a DHW coil is the same thing as the heat exchanger we were talking about! If I plumb another zone that runs to a solar colector, that would heat the boiler water and domestic water coil without a fire. This would also keep the boiler warm in the summer reducing corrosion from condensation.

Wow, this sounds crazy. Why didn't I think of this before? Will it actualy work?

-Don

Removing that coil after 40 years will require a 4' pipe wrench AND a long cheater bar. Heat will help out, but the leverage will tip the boiler easily. Keystoker coils are bolt on, not screw in, however AHS uses the 4" insertion DWC. Keystoker would gladly provide the weld on new style flange , but it might be better to go the indirect route, anyway. Rob has provided a like for the source of these, so give it a chance. IF you can move the plug, you could simply buy a 4" black iron plug to allow usage immediately, while you source the tankless coil.

Whistlenut hit it on the head. The AHS boilers have what appears to be the same DHW coil arrangement, and they may be able to provide you with all that you need. It will likely be mighty tough getting it to spin free after 40 years though.

When you put a wrench and pipe on that fitting be sure to hit the wrench with a four pound sledge while a helper keeps tension on it. Impact works a lot better than brute force.

If that does not work go to Rob's plan C which is to cut a segment out of the plug.

I would skip trying to loosen the fitting without heating it.
I would not use a rosebud either, a #7 welding tip would be easier to control the heating of the bung. You want the bung to heat up but not the plug. Heating the bung alone with shrink the metal away from the plug after it cools.
Do not use brute force alone to break the joint loose as it could pull the threads out of the bung. When the metal cools enough to melt wax instead of producing a big cloud of smoke, melt some candle wax into the joint. This will help to lubricate the threads.
Do not strike the pipe wrench, it is better to strike the plug. You want to introduce the shock into the fitting not the wrench. Unless you own a 48" pipe wrench, you do not want to beat up someone else's.
If the fitting does not budge after heating and cooling heat it back up and than try turning it out. Work the joint back and forth to prevent the threads from galling.
Check the sealant used on the joint, if it is very hard like rock it is probably X-Pando
http://www.xpando.com/xpando.php
To remove it you MUST heat both parts of the joint red hot to break the grip on the threads.
Dan.

Truth be told, I have not been able to remove the plug with heat, and a big wrench....with a hammer cycle, too. If the bastards had put pipe dope and teflon on the thing....but teflon wasn't even invented when that coil was screwed in. I did break the side of the plug itself (those have only 4 tabs and not a complete, solid plug. I ended up grinding and sawing sections and luckily did not damage threads. THAT is why I say: Screw the damned 'thankless' coils and go indirect. Axeman, EFM, Keystoker,GJ, Van Wert........Yellow Flame......and nearly all others who developed a leak, did serious damage to the boiler blank. Minimal service on the boiler would have prevented this issue, and those damned jackets many 'pop a woody' over hid the damage from an easy view. Harley Earl is long gone, so don't worry about offending him with a boiler without 'proper sheet metal'. Do what you want, but I can assure you that most boilers were neglected and have issues. Even a brand new oil or gas boiler with a tankless, will have issues. I see it every day.

Hummm...

I sounds like I am not going to get this thing out without a fight and a lot of fire. And, I would rather not paint the boiler again. Maybe I shoud just forget about the coil and use my Amtrol Boiler Mate?
I've read the "Smitty" file on these so I will be doing some mods to the electronics.

One thing I don't understand about these inderects; Does the domestic water go through the tank and get heated by the coil? Or the other way around?

-Don

I changed the coil in my Yellow Flame. I had to use a 4 foot pipe wrench with a 4 foot cheater bar on the end of it. I had to set it where I could stand on that arrangement and jump up and down. I darn near tore the piping loose and did lift the back side of the boiler off the floor before it finally moved. I sprayed it with WD40, and everything else I could get my hands on. I heated it for a week and resprayed each day before I started the process. It took 3 times across a couple of days before it finally moved.

I pulled the coil out and replaced it with a screw in flange. The flange was welded onto a nipple and that way I could buy a bolted on coil. Knowing what I know now?

Cut the lines, cap them and put a sidearm like a Boilermate or some such arrangement and forget that stupid coil.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.

Does the domestic water go through the tank and get heated by the coil?

Yes, exactly.

And if you run the BoilerMate's controls on 24 Volt...no electronic mods are required...only if run them at 120 volts was there a problem.
Also, at some date in production the problem was corrected w/ an improved circuit board.

Don, that would be the best way to go.
If you do go that way pour a 4" - 6" concrete curb for it to set on. Just build a square frame out of 2X's, place where you want it to set and than pour it full of concrete. Finish the edges at a 45° angle and let cure.
You can peg it down to the floor or leave it unconnected to the floor.
You want the base of them up out of any possible standing water.
Dan.

I get away raising up open bottomed mounted tanks with just using 3 bricks spaced @ 120 degrees apart in a circle (use more if it makes you happy), and for solid bottom mounted water heater tanks I like the 2" thick blue or pink foam board cut into a circle w/ a drywall saw to match the tank's footprint.

McGiever wrote:I get away raising up open bottomed mounted tanks with just using 3 bricks spaced @ 120 degrees apart in a circle (use more if it makes you happy), and for solid bottom mounted water heater tanks I like the 2" thick blue or pink foam board cut into a circle w/ a drywall saw to match the tank's footprint.

In a previous career, I was a well drillers helper. I saw a lot of tanks that had ring rust out from setting on the floor in damp conditions. I have seen them on bricks, blocks and even wood.
But I had to attend a class on installing holding tanks for the installation of a RO/DI system in a chemical plant. One of the things that the instructor harped on was that the tanks stand ring had to set flat on the concrete with no less than 75% of the ring's flange in contact with the concrete. We had to grout the top of the curb with non shrinking grout to get that result.
We installed 2000 gallons of storage for the RO water, That was a lot of tanks and they used Well X Trol tanks. The company used 1000 gallons of water a day in their process and wanted enough water so the plant would not shut down while doing maintenance on the RO system. . The DI systems pulled water from these tanks to feed into the process.
Dan.

Dan,

Not sure if you are talking about the boiler or the boiler mate. Either way it is a good idea to get both of them up a few inches off of the floor. I can do it to both, the boiler will not be staying in exactly that spot. I need to make a dissision about where the boiler will be permenently placed. My brain says "The boiler should be in the basement". My back says "This thing weighs over 1300 pounds, let's not go crazy and move it far from where it is!".

I did take my 4 ton basement coal bin apart yesterday. The bin was in the spot that the boiler will go, if I put it in the basement.

-Don