Heat Loss From Out Building and Buried Pex

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:00 am

I am heating approx 2200 sq ft, un insulated with huge single pane windows, in frigid temps my coalgun struggles to keep up and on some days it doesnt and my house temps drop down into the mid 60's, I keep the stat at 74...the boiler is about 140 ft or so away from my house in a out building, pex lines buried 4 feet down in sched.40 insulated on the outside. I know I know my house needs some insulating done to it but renovationg this whole house is my project over the next many years and until I get all my outside walls insulated I want something to keep up

Visit Alternate Heating Sytems

User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 12541
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:04 am

It sounds like with your 140 foot underground run you may be losing appreciable heat to the ground.

User avatar
Scottscoaled
Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
Location: Malta N.Y.

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:08 am

You need to find out if you are getting extreme heat loss from your underground pex before you sell your boiler. You stated that you insulated it on the outside of the 4" schedule 40. How so? Four feet deep might be an issue also. Find what the temperature differentials are boiler to house and back. Ten degree differential with no load is enough to waste 40 k BTU's more or less. Would make your 115k BTU net boiler a 75k BTU boiler.

User avatar
Scottscoaled
Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
Location: Malta N.Y.

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:09 am

There is heat loss at your outbuilding also

User avatar
Dennis
Member
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 5:44 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size
Location: Pottstown,Pa

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:12 am

dchartt wrote:pex lines buried 4 feet down in sched.40 insulated on the outside
Just to on the same page,you have uninsulated pex in a pipe,do you know if you have any condensation inside the pipe? Have you ever measured the pex temps from the boiler to the house. Do a heat loss/heat load to see what's needed,don't guess,AHS makes 4 different sized multi fuel sizes to meet your heat load.

User avatar
Scottscoaled
Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
Location: Malta N.Y.

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:18 am

SCREW WOOD! WOOD SUCKS!

User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 11498
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:20 am

How much coal do you burn per season?

As I recall your house has an old gravity system with huge pipes and radiators.

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:24 am

Scottscoaled wrote:You need to find out if you are getting extreme heat loss from your underground pex before you sell your boiler. You stated that you insulated it on the outside of the 4" schedule 40. How so? Four feet deep might be an issue also. Find what the temperature differentials are boiler to house and back. Ten degree differential with no load is enough to waste 40 k BTU's more or less. Would make your 115k BTU net boiler a 75k BTU boiler.
It has insulation wrapped around the outside, If I were to do it again I would bury the pipe in spray foam, definitely didnt want the lines that are insulated on the inside because if something happens you cant pull a line out to replace....why would 4ft deep be an issue?

never took temps on the pex coming in the house, I know my mixing valve wont let the house receive anything over 165 to 170 and thats an issue also

Visit Alternate Heating Sytems

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:29 am

Rob R. wrote:How much coal do you burn per season?

As I recall your house has an old gravity system with huge pipes and radiators.


this season I have almost 4 1/2 ton burned so far

yes it does, and my boiler isnt wired up to shut the pump off when the water temp goes down so low to let it recover

without gettin rid of all the huge gravity fed pipes would a bigger pump benefit me? there is one rad upstairs that will never no matter what get hot water to it but everything else gets nice and hot
Last edited by dchartt on Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Scottscoaled
Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
Location: Malta N.Y.

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:29 am

Your water table fluctuates. It could have been low when you installed. The point I'm making is that if your insulation get wet, you will be spending your time buying coal or wood. A lot more than you should have to.

User avatar
windyhill4.2
Member
Posts: 5147
Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:43 am

Coalgun won't keep up ,or is the mixing valves low temp preventing enough heat to get to house ? Why have a mixing valve control the water temp going to house ??

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:46 am

the ground here gets wet that deep maybe 4 times a year and it definitely don't happen in heating season, the reason I know that is because I had an outside line buried that deep with a crack in it and it had to rain extremely heavy and hard for awhile to get water in that pipe and it only happened a few times a year

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:46 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:Coalgun won't keep up ,or is the mixing valves low temp preventing enough heat to get to house ? Why have a mixing valve control the water temp going to house ??
so when my boiler is sitting at 200+ I don't melt my pex lines when the pump kicks on

dchartt
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri. Sep. 02, 2011 5:22 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glacier Bay

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:48 am

do they make a mixing valve that can be controlled a little better than just turning a black plastic knob in different directions?

cabinover
Member
Posts: 1610
Joined: Wed. Feb. 04, 2009 7:13 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.
Location: Fair Haven, VT

Post Sun. Jan. 26, 2014 10:50 am

Scott's correct on the water table fluctuating unless you're on a hilltop or the like. The first time I buried my pex was about 4' down.

That spring I could tell in February just where the line was, I could have planted a garden almost. The water table had risen.

Brought it up to around 2&1/2' and don't see the line now and use less coal.

I think what is needed now are your incoming and outgoing temps. My AA130 will heat our 1200' house and 1200' of garage with little more than a decent workout.

Visit Alternate Heating Sytems

Post Reply

Return to “Stoker Coal Boilers Using Anthracite (Hydronic & Steam)”