Problems With KAA-2 Temps.

Stoker Coal Boilers automatically feed the coal and have controls and pumps just like any conventions boiler. They are intended to be used as a primary heat and often have domestic hot water coils as an added bonus. They can be set up independently or in dual sytem with your existing oil/gas boiler. They can accommodate both hot water base board or steam plumbing.
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Sting
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Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 2:17 pm

kstills wrote:
Sting wrote:Sounds like a typical over pumping drama -- :D

Do a little searching regarding system balance!
Yeah, but eventually (unless his heat loss exceeded his btuh) he would catch up, right?
it Depends -- probably not until the weather moderates

- so yes - eventually but not due to system performance= due to load decrease
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 2:20 pm

This weather has been A LOT colder for A LOT longer this winter than the previous 2 winters where his system appeared to work well.
No matter where you go,......there you are.

kstills
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Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 2:32 pm

Sting wrote:
it Depends -- probably not until the weather moderates

- so yes - eventually but not due to system performance= due to load decrease
Cryptic and oddly unsatisfying as an answer (because I keep clicking on those underlined passages, only to find out they aren't hyperlinks).

In my situation, it takes a while for the system to 'balance', IE come up to temp where the water is actually circulating without the low limit being breached. In warmer weather, this never happens. In this extreme cold, the boiler might run 1/2 the night.

Eventually, I'm circulating water above the 160ll. Then the demand is satsified, and the boiler shuts off. And I'm pushing ~75g of water around both zones.

IF my heat loss exceeded my boiler's ability to match it, my boiler would never shut off, however the water temp in the system should eventually hit the ll and stay there (unless the heat loss was massively higher than the btuh of the boiler).

Balancing the system, if I understand it correctly, makes the boiler run full out from the get go, or close enough to make the difference negligible. It does this by restricting flow, reducing the return temp of the water, keeping hotter water in the living areas and forcing the boiler to run more or less continuously.

I'm just not seeing how this helps anymore than the other method if the hl exceeds the btuh output.

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Sting
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Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:17 pm

kstills wrote:I'm just not seeing how this helps
You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make him drink

or

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." –Bill Cosby
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

kstills
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Posts: 639
Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:27 pm

Sting wrote:
kstills wrote:I'm just not seeing how this helps
You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make him drink

or

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." –Bill Cosby
Ooops, talked at length about something besides system balance.
:oops:

However I don't see how a 900 sq foot dwelling can have a system balance issue great enough to overcome the boiler's capacity to make enough hot water to eventually heat the house.

waldo lemieux
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Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:40 pm

How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You don't by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D
When faced with a seemingly impossible task, my grandfather always said "can't never can, untill try comes along"

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Sting
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Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:42 pm

kstills wrote: Balancing the system, if I understand it correctly, makes the boiler run full out from the get go, or close enough to make the difference negligible. It does this by restricting flow, reducing the return temp of the water, keeping hotter water in the living areas and forcing the boiler to run more or less continuously.
Where on earth did you draw this conclusion from
Image
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

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tsb
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:42 pm

My home built boiler is no bigger than a Kaa-2 and it runs
balls to the walls in this weather. The T-stats run the circulator
and the aquastat runs the stoker. The stoker runs flat out almost all
the time and the water never gets below 150-160. The house is
about 4000 sq feet. 2000 gets heated to 72-73 and the rest is what
ever it is. The basement is ground floor and also 2000 sq feet, but is
still 50 degrees. Maybe just shitty coal.
Coal -- It's not a hobby, It's an addiction.

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farrell2k
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2
Location: Perkasie Pa.

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:45 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You don't by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D
It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(

kstills
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Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
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Location: New Britain, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 3:57 pm

farrell2k wrote:
waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You don't by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D
It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(
Ding!

This may be the problem....

Now, does the boiler ever shut off?

At 180f, 100ft gives ~61k btuh at 4gpm...

No insulation, any idea what your heat loss is at these temps?

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Sting
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Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 4:05 pm

farrell2k wrote:
waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You don't by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D
It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(
What temperature is the return pipe near the boiler?

What temperature is the supply pipe ?? Hey Folks maybe this appliance already does have a bypass -- can we see any pictures?
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 4:08 pm

I'm just glad my suggestion has seemingly improved the situation a bit. Let's bring all home boy! Take the temps and post the photos! :D
No matter where you go,......there you are.

kstills
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Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
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Location: New Britain, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 4:11 pm

Kaa2 output is ~76k net, which is right about near his current radiation.

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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
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Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 4:38 pm

I suspect poor flow. Either air bound or circulator problem. Maybe a valve got turned accidentally. That is why the output and return temps would be nice to know.

Kevin

farrell2k
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Joined: Sun. Nov. 11, 2012 4:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2
Location: Perkasie Pa.

Post Fri. Jan. 24, 2014 5:10 pm

I have no way to measure any temps right now, but the water leaving the circulator is damned hot to the point where I can only touch the pipe for a few seconds.

There is a bypass loop, at least that's what I was told. Please ignore the mess. I didn't have the motivation to clean anything but the essentials on the boiler this season.

I used to have two zones set up on the old oil boiler, but now I only have one that controls both circulators. I was experimenting before and disconnected the circulator that pumps upatairs. I was able to get the downstairs to 70 when I did this. I am now thinking that too much water is leaving the boiler to satisfy the thermostat. Does that make any sense?
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