Looking to Install a Boiler

Tommorrow I go investigate a nice EFM DF520 down in the valley. We will see, supposedly in "new" condition.

"New" like never used or "new" like it has a fresh paint job? Let us know what you find out.

My experience with a TACO variable speed pump that is supposed to vary the pumping speed according to the Delta-T of the water out vs the water returning has been well a huge disappointment.
I put a 'Kill-a-watt' on the pump, and it shows virtually zero electricity savings over a standard TACO 007. I was expecting a notable difference in watts used, but I see nothing..
It's just a noisy, expensive pump.

This pump is on my supply loop from the boiler room/building to the house and two water/water heat exchangers transfering heat into the heat and DHW tank..
What I was led to believe from the description of the Delta-T function and variable speed reaction to the Delta T was that if the house and DHW were not pulling any BTU's from the water loop, then the Delta T would be low or almost nonexistant. The hot water going to the house was the same temperature when it returned to the boiler, the pump description says that the pump will idle down to very low speed under this circumstance.
Then when there is a large Delta-T, the pump is supposed to speed up to pump more water [BTUs] when more are needed in the house.

Well the pump does show some VERY minor differences in power used, but I ran and recorded 'normal pumps' and this computer-controled 'variable speed' pump.. On a minute by minute basis, yes the pump does vary speed and watts used, but over a 24 hour period, there is NO difference in watts used..
The TACO rep I spoke with on the phone said that the pump is not intended to save electricity, but to increase pumping capaciy as needed.. Well, it should then save and reduce watts used, right?? The rep said no, they do slow the pump down and speed it up, but the electricity difference is negligible..
So I asked then what is the reason that the pump was developed and sold, and what is the perceptible 'improvement' a consumer or installer will see? The rep said that the biggest difference would be a reduction in pumping 'noise' from the water flow in the pipes ???? WTF???
Who the hell has a ?$200 problem with rushing water noises in the pipes? Not many when a standard TACO007 costs about $70 !!

Anyway I would HIGHLY recommend a conversation with TACO, Grundfos or other pump makers before spending any money on a pump that claims to be some form of magic.

Greg L

From what I read regarding the electrical usage savings with the variable speed pumps, regardless of the manufacturer, the savings occur over a LONG period of usage, not just a 24 hour test. The example used was an entire month with 10 days of reduced usage in that 30 days. Your savings comes from a slowdown in speed over a longer period of time.

Controls water noise rushing through the pipes? I wouldn't call those guys back again.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.

anthony7812 wrote:My concern was the longevity of the vessel. The stoker(any stoker) has 2 big components that are against it, heat and moving parts. Someday it WILL fail but the stoker parts are easily replaced or repairable.

Anthony, I give you lots of credit for the research you are doing before making the purchase. It's part of the fun of it all. I'm no expert on boilers. However, I have become an expert of my own boiler. I will say that the pressure vessel of my little Kaa-2 is as heavy duty as any others I've seen. I believe what holds the price down on the Keystoker boilers is the simplicity of the units themselves. There are no bells or whistles. Just a plain Jane boiler. I use to work at an industrial boiler manufacturer. They built boilers for heating entire cities (not homes), turning turbines for utility companies, and sailing ships. So, I have seen my share of materials used in the manufacturing of boilers. Of course, no comparison between the two. Example: One steam drum joint would take two or more days to weld up. And I'm talking 24 hour days, where 2 or 3 welders would pound rod around the clock on one joint. The bearings used on the coal pulverizer shafts are 2 foot thick, and 4 - 5 foot in diameter. Yes, big stuff.....

blrman07 wrote:From what I read regarding the electrical usage savings with the variable speed pumps, regardless of the manufacturer, the savings occur over a LONG period of usage, not just a 24 hour test. The example used was an entire month with 10 days of reduced usage in that 30 days. Your savings comes from a slowdown in speed over a longer period of time.

Controls water noise rushing through the pipes? I wouldn't call those guys back again.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.

Kind of like todays diesel engine. No savings in operating cost. But performance/longevity on heavy loads will dwarf a gasoline engine.

I believe the Grundfos Alpha was designed for energy savings. The Taco Delta-T pump that Greg mentioned is designed to optimize flowrates based on temperature feedback...I too was fooled by thinking that would translate into energy savings.

Here she is.. auger& gear along with covers are just as nice but off to the side until we make it into the basement.

That is a sweet looking boiler! You will be very glad you decided to go with an underfed stoker.

That's one sweet look'in Van Wert Anthony!

-Don

Funny how a person can change their mind when someone opens a couple more doors.......and they see more of another 'great one'. 140K........perfect size...and room for additional loading.

Dual fuel also.......nice rebuild. Any one we know???

That looks awfully similar to a VA400 in Malta, NY.

Man.I'd say you hit the "MotherLode" ! And Lo and Behold,it's not September ! I see you easing that " 'Lil Heatmaker" into Service nice and easy. Good Score,My Friend!

I thought Malta was over by Portugal..........oh well. Nice boiler......looks like some overly detailed German/Dutch/Polish/Mongrel person worked on it. That old boiler won't last more than 50 years without a refresh..........NICE EQUIPMENT, VERY NICE, SS!!!!!!

whistlenut wrote:Dual fuel also.......nice rebuild. Any one we know???

Dual fuel is the icing on the cake, may never use it but you never know and its good to be prepared. Scottscoaled does some very impressive work and I for one am glad I have one of his works. Big thanks to Scott.