Keystoker KA-4 or LL Wl110 ?? Buying Friday

Stoker Coal Boilers automatically feed the coal and have controls and pumps just like any conventions boiler. They are intended to be used as a primary heat and often have domestic hot water coils as an added bonus. They can be set up independently or in dual sytem with your existing oil/gas boiler. They can accommodate both hot water base board or steam plumbing.
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oliver power
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Posts: 2266
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Wed. Nov. 06, 2013 8:25 pm

I don't know ANYTHING about the Leisure Line boilers, other than, they are supposed to be good. I do have the Key Stoker Kaa-2, which I believe is 24 gallon capacity. I'm very happy with the Kaa-2. It does a GREAT job of heating my place. That being said, If the Kaa-2 had about 6 gallons more capacity, It would shine that much more than it already does. I think that's why KEY STOKER re-introduced the KA-4. My point is; I couldn't imagine having a coal fired boiler with only 12 gallons capacity. Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Thu. Nov. 07, 2013 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oilman
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Location: Central New York

Post Wed. Nov. 06, 2013 8:36 pm

kstills wrote:
Rob R. wrote:
I've been giving this some thought myself, since the family has expanded since I installed the WL 110. Based on another thread, I'll be putting in a blending valve, run the indirect up to 150 and figure that will cure all my DHW and cold temperature potential problems.
I was going to mention that, the mixing valve/150 degree set-up works wonders on any water heater.
Oil & Coal Burner Service Specialist

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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Thu. Nov. 07, 2013 5:02 am

Tomorrow is Friday, what's it going to be?
Randy
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kstills
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Joined: Tue. Jan. 18, 2011 6:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Fri. Nov. 08, 2013 11:58 am

Ditto, which did you order? :)

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Carbon12
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Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue. Oct. 11, 2011 6:53 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Fri. Nov. 08, 2013 12:28 pm

Where do you live? Which unit would could you get parts for more easily? I would, personally, like a bigger reserve found in the KA-4. I'd rather be slightly oversized than at all undersized. I can comment that I do REALLY like my KA-6. Only stoker I've ever know, personally, however.
No matter where you go,......there you are.

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Matthaus
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Posts: 1929
Joined: Mon. Oct. 02, 2006 8:59 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite
Location: Wilkes Barre, PA

Post Fri. Nov. 08, 2013 6:06 pm

One other factor to remember when designing a system is gravity flow. Most modern installations employ a flow check to prevent the water from taking it's natural path as it's heated and thus causing the boiler to fire. We have customers who have saved the expense of changing their plumbing over to primary secondary by simply allowing gravity flow and thus employing the capacity of the loop (s) as a storage tank.
Of course as has already been stated the design of the system, physical conditions and other factors need to be considered and taken into account by a qualified HVAC professional before this method is employed, or at the very least there needs to be a slight tolerance for a science project atmosphere while certain details are worked out.
One other thing to remember when the full loop has cooled to say 125* and is going to return to the boiler, if a boiler has more capacity it now has that extra capacity to heat as well when the big amount of cool water returns and dilutes the boiler. With only 12 gallons and most of it in contact with the fire, a LL WL 110 can recover faster than higher volume boilers designed using the tried and true method of mass storage.
One other thought, we tested the boiler in the UL lab using a total loss heat exchanger with 50 degree well water entering one side. The delta T was 110* and yet the boiler could still crank out 190* water at certain flow rates, so to limit flow to the loop with the large capacity can also control the availability of high boiler temp to ensure plenty of DHW production.
Then again a person can always do things the way they have always been done and get predictable results while never stretching the envelope. The mad professor in me always wants to see what can be accomplished.
I do not post this to convince anyone of anything, only to provide food for thought. :)
Matthaus
Leisure Line Stove Company
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/

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Flyer5
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Location: Montrose PA
Contact:

Post Fri. Nov. 08, 2013 10:35 pm

My 2 cents since I have run a K4 (older version). An AA130 and now my WL110. All 3 do a great job. I honestly think my HW is the same between my old K4 and the WL 110. I have a 6yr old and my wife in my house both take long showers. I also have a habit of getting my air fuel ratio wrong in the hopper, too much air at times. :D My best solution since I try to keep on the good side of my girls. I feed the cold side of my electric DHW heater. So no matter what at the very least they have a hot shower. When I did not run my coal boiler for a short time this summer my electric bill went up more than $40. But I was so busy it was not a big deal. Uninterrupted HW and 2 happy girls.

If momma's happy everyone is happy. :)
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oliver power
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Posts: 2266
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Sat. Nov. 09, 2013 8:46 pm

That must be one tough decision. We are at the edge of our seats, waiting for the final results. Both manufacturer's would be proud to see there product head to head, and neither one a push over. Oliver

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KLook
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Posts: 3636
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sat. Nov. 09, 2013 11:39 pm

Its almost Sun. already!!! Which one!!!! :shock:

Kevin

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Carbon12
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Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue. Oct. 11, 2011 6:53 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Sun. Nov. 10, 2013 12:13 am

I hope he didn't buy cord wood instead! Lol!
No matter where you go,......there you are.

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coalkirk
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Posts: 4682
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Sun. Nov. 10, 2013 7:45 am

Flyer5 wrote:My 2 cents since I have run a K4 (older version). An AA130 and now my WL110. All 3 do a great job. I honestly think my HW is the same between my old K4 and the WL 110. I have a 6yr old and my wife in my house both take long showers. I also have a habit of getting my air fuel ratio wrong in the hopper, too much air at times. :D My best solution since I try to keep on the good side of my girls. I feed the cold side of my electric DHW heater. So no matter what at the very least they have a hot shower. When I did not run my coal boiler for a short time this summer my electric bill went up more than $40. But I was so busy it was not a big deal. Uninterrupted HW and 2 happy girls.

If momma's happy everyone is happy. :)
Everyone knows electric water heaters are not an economical way to make hot water. But they are a great way to store hot water and act as a buffer between water coils in a hydronic system and the user at the faucet. I do the same thing, feed the output from the coil into the cold side of a 50 gallon water heater. The electric elements only come on to keep the water at temperature. The water heater never sees 50 degree well water.
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Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Nov. 10, 2013 8:12 am

Looks like we'll never know the outcome.
Randy
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lephturn
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Posts: 17
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Stove/Furnace Make: still deciding

Post Mon. Dec. 30, 2013 10:54 pm

decision will be a WL110 BUTTTTTTT....Long story short. Got a call from work that Thur nite. Laid off.. 1st time in 17.5 years... Went into hysterical saving mode and did not buy on Fri because I have a coal stoker stove system that does work just not at the comfort levels I would prefer. I just heard that 2nd week of Feb I should be back and if so then the money I have still saved and set aside for my LL WL110 will be spent. Until then I am keeping that extra 4k buffer and savings in the bank. More to come on my small setback
Jason

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EarthWindandFire
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace and Kerosene Heaters.
Location: Connecticut

Post Tue. Dec. 31, 2013 6:36 am

Jason,

Sorry to hear about the lay-off, life has a way of altering course in the blink of an eye,

Keep us posted, we are here to help, not just on boilers.
Mark

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lephturn
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Stove/Furnace Make: still deciding

Post Wed. Jan. 01, 2014 4:55 pm

Thanks. I am waiting to hear Thur from them if can come beck even sooner. Hopefully this will not be a yearly normal thing from here forward. The first day back will be my order date and can not wait for both. You all are a great group of guys here. Thanks for the support

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