Keysoker by Pass Loop

Stoker Coal Boilers automatically feed the coal and have controls and pumps just like any conventions boiler. They are intended to be used as a primary heat and often have domestic hot water coils as an added bonus. They can be set up independently or in dual sytem with your existing oil/gas boiler. They can accommodate both hot water base board or steam plumbing.
tnt600
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Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kb-8
Coal Size/Type: rice
Location: sidney center ny

Post Sat. Nov. 02, 2013 8:52 pm

I just had a keystoker kb-8 installed and the installer never put a by pass loop in. So now I'm trying to figure out a easy way to do it.If you look at the picture. I was thinking if I hook the feed and return together a the t's it will make a big loop. will this work? should I use the same size pipe 11/4 or reduce it. I think reduce to like 3/4 for a little back pressure so water will push to my heating coil. my circulator pump is on the return side will this matter?
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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sat. Nov. 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
20131102_092916.jpg
20131102_092857.jpg
Randy
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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sat. Nov. 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Is there an unused return port on the Keystoker?

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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Sat. Nov. 02, 2013 11:09 pm

2 ports on bottom of the boiler. In my set up one port simply has the boiler drain. If his is the same, the loop could be connected there and the drain simply T'd off at the bottom.
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oliver power
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Posts: 2266
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 7:31 am

Wiz wrote:Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
20131102_092916.jpg
20131102_092857.jpg
I would think you'd want that bypass return to tie in before the circulator , not "T" into the side after the circulator. Or, am I not getting something ........

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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 7:41 am

FYI from keystoker
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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 7:42 am

Oops
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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 7:45 am

oliver power wrote:
Wiz wrote:Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
20131102_092916.jpg
20131102_092857.jpg
I would think you'd want that bypass return to tie in before the circulator , not "T" into the side after the circulator. Or, am I not getting something ........
Plumber I used is a certified master plumber. During install he had question the by pass loop with keystoker themselves. I'm going to say it was done correctly
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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 7:48 am

Rob R. wrote:Is there an unused return port on the Keystoker?
Yes
..
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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
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Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 8:40 am

Also
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KLook
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 8:45 am

My question would be how does the bypass loop work in your system wiz as there is no circulator making it flow? Gravity? Or are you taking the hot water off the bottom? Even looking at the schematic put up I don't understand what makes the water flow. I installed a small circulator from the top back to the bottom of my VF3000 and it worked great.

Kevin

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Wiz
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(
Location: Tannersville Pa

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 9:11 am

KLook wrote:My question would be how does the bypass loop work in your system wiz as there is no circulator making it flow? Gravity? Or are you taking the hot water off the bottom? Even looking at the schematic put up I don't understand what makes the water flow. I installed a small circulator from the top back to the bottom of my VF3000 and it worked great.

Kevin
It's set up taking hot water off off the bottom then returns it to the supply prior to boiler. Allowing hot water to mixes with return line on top of boiler. It works. ;)
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KLook
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Posts: 3636
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 9:20 am

So the circulator is pulling away from the boiler? Why does that not just pull cool water from the supply(now the cold return) across and bypass the boiler? Water is like electricity and will follow the path of least resistance if given a chance. I saw one set up this way in Maine and was baffled. It seems that you are mixing cold with hot and reducing the output water temp. And dumping cold right on top of the hottest part of your boiler, inducing more boiler shock?
I am missing something simple here.

Kevin

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KLook
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Posts: 3636
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000
Location: Chattanooga, Tenn

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 9:22 am

That dang schematic needs some arrows for flow.

kevin

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Rob R.
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Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Sun. Nov. 03, 2013 9:33 am

What Keystoker calls a "bypass loop" is really an "equalizer loop"...but it sort of functions as a bypass if you have it piped correctly. :wacko:

The way that Wiz has his piped, some water will flow through the "bypass" due to a pressure differential created by the circulator, but how much is a mystery and uncontrollable without a valve.

EFM recommends installing a valve in the return between the boiler and the bypass, this allows you to throttle how much flow bypasses the boiler. This is useful when you have a high mass system such as a converted gravity hot water system...the hundreds of gallons of water take a long time to heat up, and adjusting the bypass reduces the volume of cold water that hits the boiler.
The other reason to install a loop from the supply to return, with or without balancing valves, is to keep the temperature in the boiler uniform when it is idling. Van Wert called this a "bypass equalizer ". Without it the water in the boiler will stratify and the hottest water collects at the top of the boiler. Notice in the illustration that the equalizer loop connects to a separate port in the boiler, it is not connected to the return piping.
Van Wert Piping.jpg
In this case I would add a tee in the piping coming out of the top of the K8 and connect it to the unused return port. This will prevent water from stratifying in the boiler. Considering the large mass of the boiler compared to the small diameter piping and water to air heat exchanger, the system should operate fine without a true "bypass".

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