Putting my AA130 to use
- mozz
- Member
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon. Sep. 17, 2007 5:27 pm
- Location: Wayne county PA.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam
Freddy had a good idea years ago. Inserts to make the fire diameter smaller. I don't know if he ever designed them or came to another conclusion. I'm still seeing slowing the fan speed down will lead to more unburnt. If you use that lighter coal which gets you the white fluffy ash, lights easy and burns quicker, maybe. The coal i use shines like glass and is hard to light but once it's lit it burns very hot. I stand by my "coal needs to burn hot" theory. I have mine plumbed inlet well water into the boiler hot water coil, then into a regular hot water tank. Since i am running on the timer all summer and have the house thermo disconnected, i doubt mine ever comes on low limit as the timer seems to do enough. No need to get overly complicated to heat water as i doubt you will see any savings that you can bank. Buck would be the only small savings and maybe a touch lower on the anthrastat.
- Retro_Origin
- Member
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
The only way I can think to make fire diameter smaller would be to weld tabs or small platforms up in the the fire chamber to support fire brick. They'd have to be stable because of the reciprocating grate and not be able to shake loose. To me this kind of modification borders on the comfort of my confidence. if something weren't to work out I feel like something would get busted, ruined or I'd end up with smoke in the house somehow! Other option would be a thick steel tube with internal screws to push against the sidewalls and maintain position. Kind of like an inverted Christmas tree stand. The fire would take it's toll on the steel and you'd have to do something to keep the air from bypassing the tube inner somehow. In light of all that Dons solution does shine as the most simple. Everyone else probably thinks this is fruitless conversation. These are way to neat to simply shut down for the summer!mozz wrote: ↑Fri. Apr. 14, 2023 3:10 pmFreddy had a good idea years ago. Inserts to make the fire diameter smaller. I don't know if he ever designed them or came to another conclusion. I'm still seeing slowing the fan speed down will lead to more unburnt. If you use that lighter coal which gets you the white fluffy ash, lights easy and burns quicker, maybe. The coal i use shines like glass and is hard to light but once it's lit it burns very hot. I stand by my "coal needs to burn hot" theory. I have mine plumbed inlet well water into the boiler hot water coil, then into a regular hot water tank. Since i am running on the timer all summer and have the house thermo disconnected, i doubt mine ever comes on low limit as the timer seems to do enough. No need to get overly complicated to heat water as i doubt you will see any savings that you can bank. Buck would be the only small savings and maybe a touch lower on the anthrastat.
- StokerDon
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- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I've thought a lot about this over the years and the fire brick idea is probably the only one that will work. Any steel insert that you put in the fire chamber will melt fairly quickly.Retro_Origin wrote: ↑Fri. Apr. 14, 2023 5:38 pmThe only way I can think to make fire diameter smaller would be to weld tabs or small platforms up in the the fire chamber to support fire brick.
The big problem with doing any of this is the fact that you are insulating the fire chamber from the boiler wall. The Axeman has a very small amount of internal surface to begin with so any boiler wall area lost will impact efficiency.
The problem I had was actually the 2018-2019 load of coal. It was very, very hard which works great in the hand fired furnace but terrible in a stoker. The Axeman with the stock fan and ashing speed would just cook the rocks a little and spit them out. No clinkers, hardly any ash and a pan full of gray rocks. It was a really bad time so I had to figure out how to get the Axeman to hold onto the coal a lot longer.Retro_Origin wrote: ↑Fri. Apr. 14, 2023 12:36 pmIf I remember correctly Don you had some issues when you went away from the ashing to fan original ratio? Like they both should be reduced the same right?
My solution was to slow the ashing speed and lower the ashing temp. First I tried bigger gearbox pulleys to slow the auger but that didn't slow it enough. I ended up adding a separate motor to drive the auger. That allowed me to use pulleys to get it down to the speed where the coal would be burnt much more completely.
-Don
- Retro_Origin
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
Fellers! An update has long been due!!
Saturday I had a blooper! Went away for the day and she ran dry of coal! Out cold! Thought I could cheat it...no worries! Came home, took the time to clean out the flue pipe before refiring it (How do you do this normally without getting CO'd to death!?)
I noticed some pretty big clinkers in the bottom of the pot that I managed to break up and get out, I'm not sure if they would have made it out through typical ashing...maybe...
Anyway, I got a long shower to give it a bit of a workout, then ran it all day Sunday and Monday as normal. Topped off the barrel Monday night, put the nice big ash tub in!
So my results are actually quite pleasing for summer running! Using buck with boiler temp set to 170+/- 1 thanks to the PID control. Set at 2 clicks and anthrastat about 125 (if calibration was proper-which is doubtful!) It pretty much always ashes during a run but I've never lost the fire or had a slow pickup, runtimes are seldom more than 5 minutes unless it is getting a DHW draw...if the timing is just right with that and pulls temp down to the 150's, a lot of times shower time is over and the boiler keeps going to get back to setpoint, then typically it will overshoot to 200.
So anywhoo! The results.
I did some math to make usage a little easier, 40 lbs is darn close to 1500 cubic inches so if I level out the coal in the barrel and measure the depth it is 3.75" per 40lbs (1 bucket) this was just about spot on when I added my buckets!
Monday @8PM filled to Saturday @8AM = 108 hrs (fairly short run for such a test but hey...)
70 lbs added = 108/70*24 = 15.5 lbs per 24 hr period?! I don't even know if I believe this!!! I kept questioning my wife to find out if I actually topped the barrel off Tuesday but we're both 95% sure it was Monday...if Tue that would only have made it 20lbs per day! Still very satisfactory to me!
Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out what was the big change? I was well over 20lbs recently, is that because we're coming out of heating season and it took a while or because I cleaned the flue, or was that big fat clinker actually screwing with me?
Cheers everyone! Gotta admit it's pretty lonely on the forums as far as coal talk goes! I find myself going back and reading all the old threads on rebuilds etc.!
Saturday I had a blooper! Went away for the day and she ran dry of coal! Out cold! Thought I could cheat it...no worries! Came home, took the time to clean out the flue pipe before refiring it (How do you do this normally without getting CO'd to death!?)
I noticed some pretty big clinkers in the bottom of the pot that I managed to break up and get out, I'm not sure if they would have made it out through typical ashing...maybe...
Anyway, I got a long shower to give it a bit of a workout, then ran it all day Sunday and Monday as normal. Topped off the barrel Monday night, put the nice big ash tub in!
So my results are actually quite pleasing for summer running! Using buck with boiler temp set to 170+/- 1 thanks to the PID control. Set at 2 clicks and anthrastat about 125 (if calibration was proper-which is doubtful!) It pretty much always ashes during a run but I've never lost the fire or had a slow pickup, runtimes are seldom more than 5 minutes unless it is getting a DHW draw...if the timing is just right with that and pulls temp down to the 150's, a lot of times shower time is over and the boiler keeps going to get back to setpoint, then typically it will overshoot to 200.
So anywhoo! The results.
I did some math to make usage a little easier, 40 lbs is darn close to 1500 cubic inches so if I level out the coal in the barrel and measure the depth it is 3.75" per 40lbs (1 bucket) this was just about spot on when I added my buckets!
Monday @8PM filled to Saturday @8AM = 108 hrs (fairly short run for such a test but hey...)
70 lbs added = 108/70*24 = 15.5 lbs per 24 hr period?! I don't even know if I believe this!!! I kept questioning my wife to find out if I actually topped the barrel off Tuesday but we're both 95% sure it was Monday...if Tue that would only have made it 20lbs per day! Still very satisfactory to me!
Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out what was the big change? I was well over 20lbs recently, is that because we're coming out of heating season and it took a while or because I cleaned the flue, or was that big fat clinker actually screwing with me?
Cheers everyone! Gotta admit it's pretty lonely on the forums as far as coal talk goes! I find myself going back and reading all the old threads on rebuilds etc.!
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
I get everything ready in advance to make the pipe clean out as quick as possible. This included having an empty ash tub to dump the pipe into and having the shop vac plugged in and ready to vac the chimney base. I pull the pipe about 15 minutes after a fan run and stuff the breech with fiberglass insulation. Then get everything clean, takes about 10 minutes.Retro_Origin wrote: ↑Sat. May. 27, 2023 9:00 amCame home, took the time to clean out the flue pipe before refiring it (How do you do this normally without getting CO'd to death!?)
For measuring daily use, add up a week's worth and divide by 7.. That'll give you a more accurate average, although 20 pounds might be pretty close!
- Retro_Origin
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
The exhaust doesn't back up out the sight port?Lightning wrote: ↑Sat. May. 27, 2023 11:37 amI get everything ready in advance to make the pipe clean out as quick as possible. This included having an empty ash tub to dump the pipe into and having the shop vac plugged in and ready to vac the chimney base. I pull the pipe about 15 minutes after a fan run and stuff the breech with fiberglass insulation. Then get everything clean, takes about 10 minutes.
For measuring daily use, add up a week's worth and divide by 7.. That'll give you a more accurate average, although 20 pounds might be pretty close!
I will do a full week measurement once I hit Monday night but this method is still accurate to find daily consumption, I just went by overall hours and it's not like I checked at after an hour or even one day- it's several days.
I do think it would be a poor idea for me to insulate the boiler, it helps keep the damp out. The basement is still cooler than the rest of the house, and we only put an air conditioner in once the inside temps get into the mid eighties.....
- Retro_Origin
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
So full report over 7 days:
120 lbs coal / 25 lbs ash (some unburnt)
17lbs / day usage (not burnage! just usage!)
20% ash to coal ratio
This means that if I was able to completely burn up everything before it got to the ash tub I would be using even less! I'm very happy with these numbers!
120 lbs coal / 25 lbs ash (some unburnt)
17lbs / day usage (not burnage! just usage!)
20% ash to coal ratio
This means that if I was able to completely burn up everything before it got to the ash tub I would be using even less! I'm very happy with these numbers!
- Retro_Origin
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
Ok so I'm the idiot! Yesterday was Tuesday! This means the measurement was over eight not seven days bringing the average to an even fifteen pounds. While considering this I noticed it looks like the barrel went down at least two inches, which would be over twenty pounds just today. Then I realized. Tuesday is normally wash day. But we're thrown off because off the holiday. Told my wife she must have done a lot of wash today. Yup! Six loads! Blistering chickens! Not bad! Axeman ftw!
- Retro_Origin
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
Well I am da fool!!
Just a bit ago I had my fire go out. I noticed it was starting to creep upward over the past few days, yesterday and the day before were 95+ degrees in the afternoon and today was high 80's until we got our much needed rain.
Anywho, I didn't want to make any changes with my settings since it's been working so well, but I think due to the weekend being different than our 'work weekday' schedule with showers and laundry and dishes and such the axeman usually gets a good stimulated run about every 12 hrs and then some inbetween. Not so on the weekend, so I increased to 2-3 clicks instead of just 2.
If this doesn't work I'll probably install a flue cutoff at about 175 and then make sure the ashing is 3 clicks all the time. I can't imagine being lower than 2 clicks, it totally wouldn't work unless there was a good amount of constant hot water usage. Not sure if my fire restart will be substantial enough to recuperate entirely or if it will go out in a few days again from not being able to get deep.
Just a bit ago I had my fire go out. I noticed it was starting to creep upward over the past few days, yesterday and the day before were 95+ degrees in the afternoon and today was high 80's until we got our much needed rain.
Anywho, I didn't want to make any changes with my settings since it's been working so well, but I think due to the weekend being different than our 'work weekday' schedule with showers and laundry and dishes and such the axeman usually gets a good stimulated run about every 12 hrs and then some inbetween. Not so on the weekend, so I increased to 2-3 clicks instead of just 2.
If this doesn't work I'll probably install a flue cutoff at about 175 and then make sure the ashing is 3 clicks all the time. I can't imagine being lower than 2 clicks, it totally wouldn't work unless there was a good amount of constant hot water usage. Not sure if my fire restart will be substantial enough to recuperate entirely or if it will go out in a few days again from not being able to get deep.
- Lightning
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
I finally had an outfire about 4 days ago. I decided not to light it back up till this morning since this little hot spell is over and going forward will be lower outside temperatures.
To relight, I push some woody charcoal into the side of the fuel column thru the draft break port. Next, I light it with a heat gun while the combustion fan is on. Prior to running the fan I pull the belt off the gear box so that I can manually ash it. Once coal starts to ignite I manually ash until the exhaust temp starts to drop, then I let it catch up and repeat. The key is to repeat this process until the fire is almost down to the grate. That way you know yer starting with a healthy fire. Put a load on it by running hot water so that it doesn't shut off until yer confident that you got the fire deep enough. The whole effort start to finish is less than an hour.
I also suspect that it's not getting enough ashing time during periods of extremely low demand. This morning I actually took the "stop" off of the ashing handle so that it can ash at maximum speed. It's running at a full 3 teeth (clicks), only occasionally it will catch 2..
To relight, I push some woody charcoal into the side of the fuel column thru the draft break port. Next, I light it with a heat gun while the combustion fan is on. Prior to running the fan I pull the belt off the gear box so that I can manually ash it. Once coal starts to ignite I manually ash until the exhaust temp starts to drop, then I let it catch up and repeat. The key is to repeat this process until the fire is almost down to the grate. That way you know yer starting with a healthy fire. Put a load on it by running hot water so that it doesn't shut off until yer confident that you got the fire deep enough. The whole effort start to finish is less than an hour.
I also suspect that it's not getting enough ashing time during periods of extremely low demand. This morning I actually took the "stop" off of the ashing handle so that it can ash at maximum speed. It's running at a full 3 teeth (clicks), only occasionally it will catch 2..
- SMITTY
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
- Location: West-Central Mass
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 Highboy
- Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
- Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
You can have some of our MA weather for testing. This sucks! Was 91° the other day. 44° this morning! 50° now, and a satanic 66.6° inside ...
Taking everything in me to keep from cranking the oil-fired t-stat up right now.
Taking everything in me to keep from cranking the oil-fired t-stat up right now.
- Retro_Origin
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Feb. 21, 2021 7:46 pm
- Location: Schuylkill county
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1957 Axeman Anderson 130
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat / Pea
Great re-light procedure, thanks! How do you avoid puffbacks when you manually ash? just keep the port door open a little after manually ashing? My fire looks pretty strong right now, we'll have to see what the next few days bring...Lightning wrote: ↑Sun. Jun. 04, 2023 11:11 amI finally had an outfire about 4 days ago. I decided not to light it back up till this morning since this little hot spell is over and going forward will be lower outside temperatures.
To relight, I push some woody charcoal into the side of the fuel column thru the draft break port. Next, I light it with a heat gun while the combustion fan is on. Prior to running the fan I pull the belt off the gear box so that I can manually ash it. Once coal starts to ignite I manually ash until the exhaust temp starts to drop, then I let it catch up and repeat. The key is to repeat this process until the fire is almost down to the grate. That way you know yer starting with a healthy fire. Put a load on it by running hot water so that it doesn't shut off until yer confident that you got the fire deep enough. The whole effort start to finish is less than an hour.
I also suspect that it's not getting enough ashing time during periods of extremely low demand. This morning I actually took the "stop" off of the ashing handle so that it can ash at maximum speed. It's running at a full 3 teeth (clicks), only occasionally it will catch 2..
Yeah I keep feeling like I need the heat in the morning and AC during the day! Although our daytime temps haven't dipped below 50's in a while!
- SMITTY
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
- Location: West-Central Mass
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 Highboy
- Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
- Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
HATE this friggin weather! Just when I was getting used to summer. Typical MA! Even the weather sucks here, lol!
I won't turn the heat on this late in the season, since I'm on oil. I'll suffer with layers. Hopefully it'll pass quickly.
Went to a graduation party this afternoon. Froze my ass off with a winter coat on! Never got above 52°, typical MA gray, gloomy, depressing, no-sun day. Wife and I had the cab of the 940 at 115° on the ride home. Heat was CRANKED!
I won't turn the heat on this late in the season, since I'm on oil. I'll suffer with layers. Hopefully it'll pass quickly.
Went to a graduation party this afternoon. Froze my ass off with a winter coat on! Never got above 52°, typical MA gray, gloomy, depressing, no-sun day. Wife and I had the cab of the 940 at 115° on the ride home. Heat was CRANKED!
- Lightning
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- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
Once the woody charcoal ignites it burns fiercely and there are blue coal flames in just a few minutes. To avoid a puffback, you don't manually ash enough at one time to bury the fire to the point of extinguishing the flames.