Axeman Anderson 260 not feeding coal

 
amernestle
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Post by amernestle » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 11:16 am

lzaharis wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 10:33 am
==============================================================================================


Good Morning,

I am glad I saw this before I headed out to do chores. You need to make sure the water fill valve is shut off as it has obviously been left open.

You have a B+G Airtrol valve.

After you shut the water fill valve off you need to do is shut the valve off that is on the copper pipe going to the airtrol valve in the steel compression tank. Then you use a 5/16 box wrench to drain the excess water from the steel compression tank and your circulators will work correctly. Just let the water drain out until you have air coming from the tank and then close the drain.

After that you can open the valve to the tank and then turn the circulators on to allow the water to travel through the system and the system will come into balance and you will have the proper point of no pressure change which is the steel compression tank.

1. Shut the water fill valve off to the boiler
2. open the drain valve in the airtrol valve in the steel compression tank
3. let the water drain out until you have no more water draining from the steel compression tank. By this time your steel compression tank will have the correct 1/3 air 2/3 water ratio to create the point of no pressure change to allow your circulators to work correctly.
4. shut the drain vent off with the wrench. Just a 1/4 turn past snug is enough as the system operates at 12-18 PSIG
5. open the valve in the copper pipe that allows water to enter the airtrol valve.

Your circulators should work fine after this work is done and you will have heat in the home.

You will have to go around and open the air vents in the first floor radiators and if there is no air in the water stop.
Go to the second floor and repeat the process and then on to the third floor to repeat the process be sure to not overtighten the air vents.

Once you have checked the radiators for any air you should have plenty of heat in the home.


I have to do chores and I will check back in several hours.
Okay will do, thanks!

We did bleed the radiators after we moved in and found that there was a bit of air, and then we checked them all again when we reconnected the third floor radiators to the heating system.
None of the radiators have air in them anymore. Every single radiator currently is hot to the touch, however overnight the third floor radiators get luke warm.

Worse comes to worse I already have a plumbing and heating guy coming friday morning to take a look at our tenants (apartment above our detached garage) hot water tank. We did have an inspection/service of the heating systems done, (we also have a propane fireplace, three electric base boards, tenants fuel furnace) a little over a month ago before we moved in to make sure everything was "safe," however the inspector did mention when he first fired the 260 up for us that he wasn't knowledgeable on the boiler in entirety and recommended finding a "specialist" and calling axeman.

If we were really feeling froggy we could actually reconnect and heat the garage and apartment with our heating system (there's pipes run under our driveway) but one problem at a time.

We're not having too much of a problem with actual heat, (other than the other day when the belt let loose in the middle of the night, thankfully I have a low temp alarm set on my indoor thermometer), but more of a consumption problem with nothing being set accurately. The temperature never fluctuates in the house, pretty much always 70 on the first floor, 75 on the second and 70 on the third, it is definitely a very poorly insulated house.


 
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Post by cabinover » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 12:17 pm

I take it the Airtrol valve has a tube going up into the expansion tank about 2/3rds of the height? Like a dip tube in an LP tank to measure 80%.

 
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Post by cabinover » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 1:26 pm

Speaking to the height of your fire I'll jump in and say in time you'll find the sweet spot. Usually with my boiler it looks like your picture , right at the view door after a good burn. Don't worry about coal spilling out, it is pretty much impossible.

As for the big chunk of burnt coal, that is known as a clinker here. It's simply a bunch of coal that has gotten hot enough that it fused together. It happens during an extended burn, like when you lost the belt. The boiler worked longer to catch up. Your ashing tray will slice that right up when it gets to it. Nothing to worry about.

 
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Post by StokerDon » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 8:11 pm

amernestle wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 6:47 am
The video is actually incredibly useful, it helps to see how another works and see what we're supposed to be aiming for, noticed you have a ton of other videos too sometimes seeing how things should work instead of hearing it helps a bit more. Watched it feed coal this morning and it appears to be moving 3 "clicks."
Thanks! That's why I started doing the videos. Most people have never seen these old coal stokers run,,, and seeing is believing.
coaledsweat wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 6:50 am
2 teeth per stroke is about the standard. As the arm moves up and down, you should see the push rod come up and click click. It doesn't have to grab 2 every time but on average and you should be good. Setting these things is a "ballpark" process, they aren't real fussy.
I agree. With the Anthrastat set at 130 to 140, two teeth (clicks) is a good starting point to tune from. Another thing to point out is changing this by one click is actually a large feed adjustment. Theoretically, going from 3 clicks to 2 clicks should drop the feed rate by 33%.

-Don

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 8:51 pm

Clicks, teeth and feed rate moves the top of the fire...more is lower, less is higher...will also change top some even if not wanted by changing (bottom) Anthrastat setting.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 9:08 pm

cabinover wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 12:17 pm
I take it the Airtrol valve has a tube going up into the expansion tank about 2/3rds of the height? Like a dip tube in an LP tank to measure 80%.
Yes sir,
The small airtrol valves have this method of water draining and the larger units have a floating tube drain that does the work.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 9:29 pm

amernestle wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 11:16 am
Okay will do, thanks!

We did bleed the radiators after we moved in and found that there was a bit of air, and then we checked them all again when we reconnected the third floor radiators to the heating system.
None of the radiators have air in them anymore. Every single radiator currently is hot to the touch, however overnight the third floor radiators get luke warm.

Worse comes to worse I already have a plumbing and heating guy coming friday morning to take a look at our tenants (apartment above our detached garage) hot water tank. We did have an inspection/service of the heating systems done, (we also have a propane fireplace, three electric base boards, tenants fuel furnace) a little over a month ago before we moved in to make sure everything was "safe," however the inspector did mention when he first fired the 260 up for us that he wasn't knowledgeable on the boiler in entirety and recommended finding a "specialist" and calling axeman.

If we were really feeling froggy we could actually reconnect and heat the garage and apartment with our heating system (there's pipes run under our driveway) but one problem at a time.

We're not having too much of a problem with actual heat, (other than the other day when the belt let loose in the middle of the night, thankfully I have a low temp alarm set on my indoor thermometer), but more of a consumption problem with nothing being set accurately. The temperature never fluctuates in the house, pretty much always 70 on the first floor, 75 on the second and 70 on the third, it is definitely a very poorly insulated house.
==========================================================================================

My house is poorly insulated as well and my steel compression tank and the Honeywell controls for my boiler work very well in tandem to heat my home with its 225 feet+-of 3/4" fin tube baseboard.

You need a lot of proper plumbing done to correct the mistakes made in its installation which will make it a much more efficient heating plant for your home and then you can heat everything you want to heat.

I hope you have time "at your convenience" to post more pictures of the pipe runs and the valves on the radiators as I would like to see them.

Please do not make any decisions per your plumbers recommendations until you mention them here as none of us has a hand on your wallet or purse ready to drain it.
I am very jaded about plumbers for a lot of reasons and I tell everyone one to wait on making a decision.

About your third floor it may be case of the circulator going bad and the volute and impeller are worn from years of cavitation. Heat rises naturally but the water that is used to carry it is lazy and if the circulator has lost efficiency it will not push a lot of hot water BUT the heat will still rise with a little bit of hot water heating the water above it.


 
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Post by amernestle » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:04 am

lzaharis wrote:
Wed. Jan. 16, 2019 9:29 pm
==========================================================================================

My house is poorly insulated as well and my steel compression tank and the Honeywell controls for my boiler work very well in tandem to heat my home with its 225 feet+-of 3/4" fin tube baseboard.

You need a lot of proper plumbing done to correct the mistakes made in its installation which will make it a much more efficient heating plant for your home and then you can heat everything you want to heat.

I hope you have time "at your convenience" to post more pictures of the pipe runs and the valves on the radiators as I would like to see them.

Please do not make any decisions per your plumbers recommendations until you mention them here as none of us has a hand on your wallet or purse ready to drain it.
I am very jaded about plumbers for a lot of reasons and I tell everyone one to wait on making a decision.

About your third floor it may be case of the circulator going bad and the volute and impeller are worn from years of cavitation. Heat rises naturally but the water that is used to carry it is lazy and if the circulator has lost efficiency it will not push a lot of hot water BUT the heat will still rise with a little bit of hot water heating the water above it.
Thanks for the advice, especially about the plumber, I'll see what he has to say, if anything, seems that according to everyone around here if there's a fire in it then it's working and they don't want to mess with it :roll:

I do have some pictures of the pipes and radiators whether any of them are useful, well, you can take a look.

In regards to third floor heating, last night was the first night since we've reconnected that there was no drop in pressure...actually the radiator almost kept it too warm in the bedroom with the door shut. I wouldn't doubt that the circulator is going bad, seems to be the running theme at this house, however I noticed in another room in the basement that there is another circulator, amongst other things, can those be rebuilt or am I just better off buying a new one when that time comes?

I'll apologize in advance if there's any doubles or if any of these are worthless. I'll have to upload pictures in a few replies, doesn't want to cooperate.

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Post by amernestle » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:20 am

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Post by cabinover » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:21 am

Are those water pipes in an unheated attic?

 
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Post by amernestle » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:32 am

cabinover wrote:
Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:21 am
Are those water pipes in an unheated attic?
Nope, they're in the cubbies on the third floor, we don't have an attic, but about five to seven massive cubby holes that spread across the whole third floor. I was concerned about temperature in them when we first moved in, because of the potential for pipes to freeze and drafts, but my husband has crawled around in a few of them and there's not much temp difference. The third floor used to be servants quarters back when the coal mogul that originally built the house was still in rein haha.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:58 am

There is a extreme amount of heat loss in all those uncovered pipes too..

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 8:24 am

Losing heat into the house isn't a big deal, probably helps even out the temps.

 
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Post by titleist1 » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 10:04 am

You have a couple massive rads in that place!! :clap: The parents 1900 house has similar "cubbies" behind the attic knee walls that supported the roof rafters. They insulated the rad pipes that ran in that space because the roof and outside walls were not insulated there. Your pipe fittings in the pic below look like they were done recently from the bright white tape or dope.

I "like" how the ceiling joists were cut to run what i am guessing is the plumbing vent pipe. And the tape spliced wires in the red circle....I hope they aren't electric!! but maybe phone? Old houses are fun to fix up!! :yes:
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Edit to add.....Just noticed the water stain on the underside of the roof sheathing. If that is the plumbing vent going through the roof you may want to check the boot to see if it needs to be replaced.
Last edited by titleist1 on Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 10:10 am

amernestle wrote:
Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 7:32 am
Nope, they're in the cubbies on the third floor, we don't have an attic, but about five to seven massive cubby holes that spread across the whole third floor. I was concerned about temperature in them when we first moved in, because of the potential for pipes to freeze and drafts, but my husband has crawled around in a few of them and there's not much temp difference. The third floor used to be servants quarters back when the coal mogul that originally built the house was still in rein haha.
If that pitched wall in the photo is the underside of your roof, you have 5-7 small attics. The reason they are not cold is because you are losing so much heat from piping and uninsulated ceiling below.

That is a big house, with a LOT of black iron piping and radiators. I am guessing it was originally a gravity system with an expansion tank in the attic.


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