Heat Pumps

 
nut
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Post by nut » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 10:49 am

Probably as long as the load exceeds the lowest turndown rate you are good. Shoulder month operation or average condition operation is where it fails to be efficient. What are the specs. of your system? Sounds like it is a good one.


 
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Post by LouNY » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 11:33 am

nut wrote:
Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 10:49 am
Probably as long as the load exceeds the lowest turndown rate you are good. Shoulder month operation or average condition operation is where it fails to be efficient. What are the specs. of your system? Sounds like it is a good one.
I have two outside units, they are Mitsubishi MXZ-4C36NA2's, and the indoor units are MSZ-GL's of various sixes from 5 to 18,000 btu

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 11:59 am

LouNY wrote:
Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 10:14 am
I'm not sure of that I have 7 heads on 2 (36 thousand) outdoor units and I will often hear and see them just barely running. The only time they completely stop is when no indoor head is calling for cooling or heating. I see no constant or even frequent cycling.
:annoyed: if they only occasionally stop, then they are constantly running.

 
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Post by nut » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 12:09 pm

Mitsubishi is generally top of the line.

 
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Post by LouNY » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 12:51 pm

waytomany?s wrote:
Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 11:59 am
:annoyed: if they only occasionally stop, then they are constantly running.
Yes, they are usually constantly running, they are not constantly stopping and starting.
They throttle down and slowly run per design.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Jan. 31, 2023 10:42 pm

I put in a couple heat pumps last year. I have a concept I plan to execute. I noted that the HP that runs my lower level short cycles. Why? Because it comes on when the thermostat calls for it and it satisfies the thermostat pretty quickly. From my understanding this is not efficient because of all the starts and stops. I purchased a 20 amp timer switch that I plan to wire to the air handler which controls the thermostat and HP. I will set the thermostat to a temperature that it will not achieve and set the HP to come on like every 2 hours for 20 minutes. So I will get a constant run when it is on and it won't come on again for several hours. I will adjust as necessary.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 5:52 am

What kind of heat pumps did you put in??? There should be no need to mess with anything, from the factory auto mode will slow down the fans modulate the output.


 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 5:57 am

I agree that it should modulate on its own, unless it is a model that doesn’t turn down very much. Also possible it is oversized.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 8:32 am

Rob R. wrote:
Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 5:57 am
I agree that it should modulate on its own, unless it is a model that doesn’t turn down very much. Also possible it is oversized.
The one I want to regulate with a timer is a Champion 1 1/2 ton for approximately 1,000 square foot finished basement. I haven't run it hardly at all in heat mode. When I ran it this summer/fall it would satisfy the thermostat pretty easily. This space is easy to heat and cool. It is a basement so it is inherently cool in the summer. My goal would be more for dehumidification than anything else. The AC coil is new and was a little hard to find. The air handler is in a closet and the previous coil had outdated refrigerant. The difficult thing about it was that the air handler also has a heat coil from the oil boiler and functions perfectly. I didn't want or need to redo the entire system. My guess is the handler is a mobile home type air handler so finding an AC coil with dimensions that could utilize the handler narrowed the options. If I remember correct it was also 1.5 ton AC coil. So anyway in a basement that doesn't really get hot and is easy to cool, when in AC mode it doesn't need to come on very long to satisfy the setting.

 
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Post by nut » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 10:07 am

I doubt you will get the dehumidification you are after in the basement. Maybe a dedicated dehumidifier would be a better choice.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 10:32 am

ColdHouse wrote:
Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 8:32 am
The one I want to regulate with a timer is a Champion 1 1/2 ton for approximately 1,000 square foot finished basement. I haven't run it hardly at all in heat mode. When I ran it this summer/fall it would satisfy the thermostat pretty easily. This space is easy to heat and cool. It is a basement so it is inherently cool in the summer. My goal would be more for dehumidification than anything else. The AC coil is new and was a little hard to find. The air handler is in a closet and the previous coil had outdated refrigerant. The difficult thing about it was that the air handler also has a heat coil from the oil boiler and functions perfectly. I didn't want or need to redo the entire system. My guess is the handler is a mobile home type air handler so finding an AC coil with dimensions that could utilize the handler narrowed the options. If I remember correct it was also 1.5 ton AC coil. So anyway in a basement that doesn't really get hot and is easy to cool, when in AC mode it doesn't need to come on very long to satisfy the setting.
Ok so this isn’t a ductless system, it’s a ducted system? You might not have the option to modulate the system then, depending how old it is and what kind of thermostat you have, I have ductless systems so they have a remote and I can put them in “auto” mode and it will module the entire system to only put out what is needed to keep the remote sensor satisfied.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 10:52 am

ColdHouse wrote:
Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 8:32 am
The one I want to regulate with a timer is a Champion 1 1/2 ton for approximately 1,000 square foot finished basement. I haven't run it hardly at all in heat mode. When I ran it this summer/fall it would satisfy the thermostat pretty easily. This space is easy to heat and cool. It is a basement so it is inherently cool in the summer. My goal would be more for dehumidification than anything else. The AC coil is new and was a little hard to find. The air handler is in a closet and the previous coil had outdated refrigerant. The difficult thing about it was that the air handler also has a heat coil from the oil boiler and functions perfectly. I didn't want or need to redo the entire system. My guess is the handler is a mobile home type air handler so finding an AC coil with dimensions that could utilize the handler narrowed the options. If I remember correct it was also 1.5 ton AC coil. So anyway in a basement that doesn't really get hot and is easy to cool, when in AC mode it doesn't need to come on very long to satisfy the setting.
Sorry to hear that. Proper sizing is key, especially for humidity control. I am not sure you will ever get this to work the way you hoped.

On a different note, a friend of mine in VT has been heating his house with a new minisplit system. It worked great until the outdoor unit got blown full of snow. Thankfully he has a big wood stove and cranked that up to give the heat pump time to defrost.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 10:57 am

Rob R. wrote:
Wed. Feb. 01, 2023 10:52 am
Sorry to hear that. Proper sizing is key, especially for humidity control. I am not sure you will ever get this to work the way you hoped.

On a different note, a friend of mine in VT has been heating his house with a new minisplit system. It worked great until the outdoor unit got blown full of snow. Thankfully he has a big wood stove and cranked that up to give the heat pump time to defrost.
It already works the way I want. I have been in this house 10 years and until I put in that heat pump I had never used the old AC unit. So now I have a functioning unit that provides AC and Heat. All in with AC coil, HP and install $2500. No complaints. Brand new.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Feb. 07, 2023 2:20 pm

Fossil fuel suppliers trying to tell Mainers that heat pumps

won't work in that type of climate.Heat pumps will work down

to near abdolute zero with the proper refigerant ,down to

-467º . Especially effective with solar and wind energy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environmen ... eat-pumps/

They want you tied to them supplying you with fuel.

https://207plumbingandheating.com/do-heat-pumps-m ... in%20Maine.

BigBarney

 
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Feb. 07, 2023 3:41 pm

With enough money anything can be made to work. Heat pumps are getting better all the time, but most are not ready for a weekend of -20F.


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