Kickspace Heater questions

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 8:21 am

A kickspace heater install question. I'm thinking of using PEX between the toe kick heater and the main zone loop for this, but I've never used PEX and don't understand what will be required. The toe kick has straight 1/2" copper inlet and outlets. The main loop is 3/4" copper and I will be sweating in two 3/4"x3/4"x1/2" monoflo tees which will take me from 3/4" on the toe kick bypass copper pipe below, to half inch for the toe kick. What type of 'transition' fittings will I need to install on the half inch copper at all 4 ends in order to run 1/2" PEX supply and return lines? How much special equipment in addition to the PEX and the fittings will I need whereby to facilitate leak proof connections? Or should I just punt and go with sweat copper since I know how to do that?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 8:25 am

Just do the entire job in copper. No sense buying pex crimping tools for such a small job.

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 8:28 am

Rob R. wrote:
Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 8:25 am
Just do the entire job in copper. No sense buying pex crimping tools for such a small job.
Thanks Rob! Practical advice there.

 
User avatar
tsb
Member
Posts: 2616
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Douglassville, Pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them

Post by tsb » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 10:24 am

If you have hard to reach spaces you can also use shark-bite fittings.


 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 10:48 am

tsb wrote:
Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 10:24 am
If you have hard to reach spaces you can also use shark-bite fittings.
I thought of that, but I'd hate to have them start leaking down the road at any juncture, as some of it would be below the cabinet, and some below in the basement with a finished ceiling. What's the buzz on the reliability of such fittings after repeated heating and cooling?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17979
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 11:02 am

I have a few in the basement that have been in service for 10 years. They have seen 200F a few times. I still solder everything I can, but Sharkbites seem to be quite reliable.

Another option is to hire it out and use Pro-Press fittings.

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 11:27 am

I've read a lot of comments from users of the kickspace heaters of various brands, and one thing that occasionally crops up in the comments is that after the heat cycle, when the boilers circulator shuts off (and/or the zone valve closes) there is a period where the built in T-Stat in the toe kick causes intermittent on and off cycling. Say it is set to turn on when the boiler water flowing through it climbs to above 110 F. What I believe is happening is that the internal fan in the heater draws away heat and brings the water to below 110 F. and shuts itself off, and then latent heat in the pipe below causes the water temperature to creep back above 110 F. again, and since the fan is no longer pulling heat off of the unit, this causes the fan to turn on again, and so-on and so-on until the water is definitively below 110 F. because latent heat has been diminished sufficiently.

I thought of this and figured that at the juncture when the zone circulator is cutting off (or when the zone valve has closed) the kitchen should be up to temperature, so I thought that running the 120 VAC hot wire of the power that energizes the kickspace heater through a line voltage T-Stat dedicated to the kitchen might resolve this annoying tendency for them to cycle on and off for a bit as described above. Any ideas as to if this might work? An added benefit would be that when the oven is on and is round about heating the kitchen the unit wouldn't likely turn on at all. The toe kick would only run when two conditions are met. 1) The zone is circulating hot water through it, and 2) The kitchen's line voltage T-Stat is calling for heat.
Last edited by lsayre on Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 6:23 pm

That idea can do the job, for sure.

Would your situation require this??
It could.
It’s tricky to fix things before we know that they would be “broken”...

If “line-stat” were added but ended up not necessary because your piping did not cause this particular “ by chance” situation then just leave the “line-stat” permanently “On” and forgetaboutit.


 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Thu. Jan. 28, 2021 10:26 pm

Might be able to find 2nd hand crimpers cheap on CL or FBMP

 
KLook
Member
Posts: 5791
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: Harrison, Tenn
Other Heating: Wishing it was cold enough for coal here....not really

Post by KLook » Fri. Jan. 29, 2021 8:01 am

I did not observe this and mine relied on the internal relay. One thing I did do was cut a hatch out of the bottom of the cabinet to facilitate vacuuming out the dust and pet hair that clogs the fin tubes.

Kevin

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Fri. Jan. 29, 2021 12:41 pm

KLook wrote:
Fri. Jan. 29, 2021 8:01 am
One thing I did do was cut a hatch out of the bottom of the cabinet to facilitate vacuuming out the dust and pet hair that clogs the fin tubes.
That's a great idea! Thanks!!!

Post Reply

Return to “Wood, Pellets, Gas, Oil, Geothermal & Other Heating Types”