Oil vs Natural Gas vs Propane?

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EarthWindandFire
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Post by EarthWindandFire » Mon. Nov. 30, 2020 12:59 pm

The home selling and buying saga continues.....

We had a buyer from New York but he ghosted us and we ended up keeping his deposit. Not nearly enough money to make up for the problems he caused us. We lost a house that we wanted because we had to back out of the contract.

We made an offer on a nice mid-century ranch last Saturday. During the walk-around, I took a quick look at the oil boiler and started contemplating a replacement. I forget to pull the btu's off the boiler tag. I'll have to go back during the inspection and get this information. I thought about Propane, but the posts on this forum are almost entirely against this fuel for countless reasons. I also checked the availability of natural gas and its not available.

My questions is; can a coal boiler running on fuel oil ONLY be as efficient as a purpose-built oil boiler? More specifically, If I bought a coal boiler like the EFM DF520 or Keystoker KA-6, but only used the oil burner for the first few years, would the purchase price and fuel cost be comparable to a regular oil boiler?

Or should I go with a high-mass boiler made in Germany like the Viessmann VB2-40 Vitola? These hold 37 gallons of water and by all accounts are superior to any American made oil boiler (even better than a Buderus) and can switch between fuel types with a burner change-out.

Thanks and I appreciate the feedback!

 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 30, 2020 1:52 pm

I thought about Propane, but the posts on this forum are almost entirely against this fuel for countless reasons.
Most people don't like the cost or having a large tank in their yard, but other than that I am not sure why it gets such a bad rap. It is a very versatile fuel. (can use it for cooking, drying clothes, lighting, generator, heat, etc).
My questions is; can a coal boiler running on fuel oil ONLY be as efficient as a purpose-built oil boiler? More specifically, If I bought a coal boiler like the EFM DF520 or Keystoker KA-6, but only used the oil burner for the first few years, would the purchase price and fuel cost be comparable to a regular oil boiler?
The short answer is no. Those boilers are designed to burn coal, and new ones cost considerably more than an average oil boiler. I was told that the DF units can achieve about 80% efficiency on oil if the boiler is clean, but I have never tried it myself. Why would you install a DF unit and run it on oil as the primary fuel?

Or should I go with a high-mass boiler made in Germany like the Viessmann VB2-40 Vitola? These hold 37 gallons of water and by all accounts are superior to any American made oil boiler (even better than a Buderus) and can switch between fuel types with a burner change-out.
Before you spend big $ on a German boiler, take a look at the systems from Energy Kinetics: https://energykinetics.com/

 
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EarthWindandFire
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Post by EarthWindandFire » Mon. Nov. 30, 2020 3:06 pm

Hey Rob,

I guess I don't want to lose the option of burning coal in the future. Plus, a coal boiler will last a lifetime and is easily repairable.

Keeping the oil boiler and installing a small hand-fired stove in the living room fireplace is the only other option. The house is a 2600 square foot brick ranch with a 2-story addition that has two bedrooms and a full bath on the second floor. Thankfully, the house has cast-iron radiators recessed in the walls. Any other heat source would be uneconomical for such a layout.


 
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 30, 2020 3:08 pm

Is there not enough room to set a coal boiler next to the oil system?

 
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Post by EarthWindandFire » Wed. Dec. 09, 2020 2:15 pm

Is there not enough room to set a coal boiler next to the oil system?
Yes, I do have the room for that, I even gave a Bilco door into the basement.

Even though the Weil Mclain Gold oil boiler looks almost new, the design itself dates from the 1950's. It is plumbed with a Superstor indirect water heater.

My current plan is to run the house on oil from January to April of 2021 and calculate the amount of oil consumed and at what temperature the house felt cozy. That information will then determine my course of action for the 20201/2022 heating season.

Thanks to everybody for the help. We are expecting to move into the house on January 8th.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Wed. Dec. 09, 2020 2:21 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:
Wed. Dec. 09, 2020 2:15 pm
Yes, I do have the room for that, I even gave a Bilco door into the basement.

Even though the Weil Mclain Gold oil boiler looks almost new, the design itself dates from the 1950's. It is plumbed with a Superstor indirect water heater.

My current plan is to run the house on oil from January to April of 2021 and calculate the amount of oil consumed and at what temperature the house felt cozy. That information will then determine my course of action for the 20201/2022 heating season.

Thanks to everybody for the help. We are expecting to move into the house on January 8th.
That is a very reliable system. It may not be as fuel efficient as some others, but trying to justify a new oil boiler with the fuel savings alone doesn't pencil out very good. I'd expect it would take at least 10 years to pay for a top of the line oil boiler with savings. Normally if you spend the same money on tightening the envelope of the house the payback is much shorter.

I think you have a good idea - see how things go for this winter and figure out the best course of action once you know more about the house. Good luck with the move!


 
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Post by Holdencoal » Wed. Dec. 09, 2020 4:46 pm

I would think the oil boiler is a three or four section boiler. Easy design to clean and maintain. You can install a Carlin gas / propane gun and replace the oil gun and keep the boiler. It’s a lot cheaper.

https://carlincombustion.com/gas-oil-burner-produ ... as-burner/

 
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Post by Berlin » Fri. Jan. 08, 2021 7:19 pm

nothing wrong with a pin boiler. be sure the burner is adjusted right, downfire the boiler to the heating load of the house (or close), and CLEAN the boiler well. It can meet or beat buderus or viessman. As someone who does this for a living I can assure you theres a lot of stupid myths out there.

noyhing wrong with oil either, not as cheap as gas, but, current pricing is bearable. Leave the oil unit alone and add a coal stove or boiler to the home if you like.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 9:21 am

Berlin wrote:
Fri. Jan. 08, 2021 7:19 pm
nothing wrong with a pin boiler. be sure the burner is adjusted right, downfire the boiler to the heating load of the house (or close), and CLEAN the boiler well.
Unfortunately most of the young service guys out there know very little about oil. At the first problem they tell the homeowner to convert to propane.

The key to good efficiency with a pin boiler is to never let it get dirty...not even once. As long as they are setup good from the start that should not be difficult - but if you let them get loaded with soot, good luck finding someone that is willing to get them clean.

 
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Post by Berlin » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 6:36 pm

So, even all the way up there they are doing that garbage too...

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