I just received some interesting news today

McGiever wrote: ↑

Fri. Jun. 21, 2019 9:46 am

Not exactly on point, but standby/backup generators can be run on NG very nicely...

Indeed!

lsayre wrote: ↑

Thu. Jun. 20, 2019 6:36 pm

... the house is actually too big for just my wife and I, so we need to consider resale value and resale potential.

Seems like almost everything we do to the house now is because my wife thinks the way you just described. The only exception is that we now need to install something to get the arsenic out of the water, but that's only because we are running out of space in the cellar for more bodies.
.

rberg, you made my day!!!

Richard S. wrote: ↑

Fri. Jun. 21, 2019 7:43 am

Since it's already there it's not difficult to keep it. If anything I'd keep it as safeguard against price spikes in the gas. That is unlikely due to the abundance but you never know.

As I already noted if I knew I was going to be living in my Grandmother's house permanently I would of kept the coal boiler. As it is now ith's a pretty big hassle to reinstall it.... I'll see how it goes, perhaps a small hot air stoker in my future. I wish I had the room, I'd put in a coal/gas range myself.

The ability to handle the coal and ash is the big variable here. Larry had hinted that the coal chores were becoming more difficult for him, so I was thinking that switching back to coal years later would be unlikely.

Bottom Line,Larry:Install the NG at a minimum! Home Value of a NG-less home in a NG District will be lower. Create Heating Options from there.

Hambden Bob wrote: ↑

Sat. Jun. 22, 2019 1:08 pm

Bottom Line,Larry:Install the NG at a minimum! Home Value of a NG-less home in a NG District will be lower. Create Heating Options from there.

Much wisdom there!

Install the gas line...
Install an inexpensive gas consumption device...
Gas DHW...
Then if you need a gas boiler...
You can drop the $$$...

Would a 55 gallon indirect HWT that is maintained at a nominal 120 degrees (during the summer months, as a consequence of boiler outdoor reset) be sufficient for 4 people?

It is not merely a factor of size or capacity that 'makes' the one only gauge of the ability of an indirect HWT, but rather the indirect's "rate of recovery"...and of course if the boiler is able to match-up to that...

For example...a 41 gallon Amtek BoilerMate Indirect can run circles around some indirect twice it's size...

lsayre wrote: ↑

Mon. Jun. 24, 2019 10:22 am

Would a 55 gallon indirect HWT that is maintained at a nominal 120 degrees (during the summer months, as a consequence of boiler outdoor reset) be sufficient for 4 people?

I would hope so Larry, I have 40 gallon tank and turned heat up to max, think it's 150 but it doesn't have it on the tank. I know it lasted for 45 minutes and it was still hot, probably another 10 or 15 minutes left. That's not a shower head out of a Seinfeld episode either. It's a Moen and the volume does not change, you can only adjust the temp. I like real hot showers too. You'd have to install mixing valve.

For the record I don't take 45 minute showers. I wanted to see how long it would last.

Many different 'shades' of Overkill can be had...but BTU In equal BTU Out

Your application may be more akin to using an Indirect HWT as more of a Buffer Tank..."trickle charge" a large quantity of BTUs for later use.
May make sense to use a plain insulated tank and skip the Indirect...use your existing tankless coil for separation of fluids.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Mon. Jun. 24, 2019 10:22 am

Would a 55 gallon indirect HWT that is maintained at a nominal 120 degrees (during the summer months, as a consequence of boiler outdoor reset) be sufficient for 4 people?

Hi Larry - It would be best to determine what first-hour rating your new water heater would need to meet. The old rule is 20 gallons for the first person, and 15 gallons for each additional person...but that doesn't allow for something like an oversize bath tub.

Also, most condensing NG boilers are installed so that a heat call from the indirect fires the boiler at max output, up to the high limit setting (with no regard to outdoor reset). If you keep the indirect at 140 degrees and mix down to 120, you would get the benefit of increased capacity, and kill any legionella bacteria.

Where can legionella bacteria be found?

Legionella organisms can be found in many types of water systems. However, the bacteria reproduce to high numbers in warm, stagnant water (95 F-115 F), such as that which is found in certain plumbing systems and hot-water tanks, cooling towers, and evaporative condensers of large air-conditioning systems, and hot tubs.

They are most often found in stagnant water reservoirs like air conditioning cooling towers, whirlpool spas, humidifiers, faucets and shower heads, and are infectious when inhaled.

At what temperature does Legionella die?

The bacteria multiply where temperatures are between 20-45°C and nutrients are available. The bacteria are dormant below 20°C and do not survive above 60°C (140F). Legionnaires' disease is a potentially fatal type of pneumonia, contracted by inhaling airborne water droplets containing viable Legionella bacteria.

OK, due to a potential for breeding Legionnaire's disease in a HWT that is maintained at too low a temperature, I'll have to rethink this. I was considering using it somewhat along the lines of a combination buffer and DHW tank and cutting the boiler requirement right to the quick. I only need about 47,000 gross output BTUH, or about 41,000 net BTUH as honest boiler output to accomplish the task. A boiler with about 55,000 BTUH on the input side should work for me. We heated the house for 10 straight years on a 13.5 KW resistance boiler, and 13.5 KW = 46,060 BTUH as both input and gross output. It fired 24/7 and struggled a tad on only about 3 days during that 10 year span. But since then we have had foam insulation injected into the outside walls upstairs, in what is a ranch home with a walk-out basement.

I've decided to go ahead and order 5 tons of coal. If they fall behind schedule with the NG line install, or if I fall behind in getting the NG boiler installed, I'll still have heat and DHW.

If my ComfortMax 75 can burn pea, I'll have a means to use it up over time one way or another.

Some of the NG boilers I've been looking at have warranties with a fine print disclaimer that the boiler must be installed by a licensed contractor who is approved by the boiler manufacturer or the warranty will be considered void, so I'm leery of doing the install myself, or with assistance.