keep the oil or switch to LP

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BlackBetty06
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Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Wed. Dec. 26, 2018 9:02 pm

Hey guys, this is in reference to my water heater. Currently I am using a 1998 Bradford White Aero series standalone oil fired water heater. The thing still works perfectly fine. Heres the thought process:

Oil Water heater:

1) Water heater is 21 years old. It doesnt leak now, whens it gonna start?
2) Water heater is hogging up an 8x8 masonry chimney
3) Water heater and oil tank take up a lot of basement space. (Water heater is my only oil fired appliance. Everything else is LP with 500 gallon personally owned tank)
4) This thing heats water like a beast! .85GPH nozzle. 122 gallon per hour recovery rate so if you manage to run out, hang out for 5 minutes and its hot again.
5) Doesnt use a whole lot of oil respectively and only costs me the electric and fuel to run it and a nozzle, filter, and strainer every so often when I decide to service it.

Propane tankless water heater:

1) Endless hot water, without the thermal loss of stored hot water into basement and up flue
2) Hangs on wall freeing up floor space, removal of oil tank, opening up 8x8 chimney
3) High efficiency, comes with re circulation
4) I will only have cost of material and equipment. Ill be putting it in

Cons:

1) Upfront cost
2) Electronic complexity
3) More propane usage (less different fuels to buy and less fuel storage)
4) Nothing wrong with current oil water heater other than getting old

Another added "benefit" Im thinking here is by moving the water heater to the wall and going direct vent LP, it opens up my chimney so I can move the 50-93 out of the fireplace and its 12x12 flue to a more appropriately sized 8x8 flue. (both chimneys 25 feet tall) I can then restore the fireplace to fireplace duty and drive out to western PA and pick up a load of BIT coal to burn in my coal basket once more along with firewood.The wife would be happy to see and HEAR a blazing fire in the fireplace (me too just as much :D )

Thoughts?

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Wed. Dec. 26, 2018 10:14 pm

You missed one big con for the wall hung LP water heater. They need to be flushed annually. $$$ I would get rid of the oil unit for all the reasons you said and get a power vented with PVC tank type LP water heater.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
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Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 7:25 pm

Yes that is true they should be flushed anually I forgot to mention that! I can do all that work myself though. Its what I do so it would just be the cost of my time and the chemical. I have debated a powerventer though like you mentioned. Much simpler operation and less parts to fail.


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 7:35 pm

The tankless units do not save any gas compared to a power vented tank unit, and require more maintenance. Upside is capacity...although it would take a large unit to compete with that oil unit.

The oil unit may be good for another year, or another decade. How about the cost of the fuel? If you are burning coal for heat, I doubt that you use enough propane to buy it at a price that is competitive with oil.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Thu. Dec. 27, 2018 7:52 pm

Curious as to what makes you say a tankless unit uses that same amount of fuel as a typical tank style unit. I usually buy propane every 2-3 years. I own my own 500 gallon tank so the propane company cant play games with me. I call when I hit 40%. My last LP bill was 176 bucks. Fuel was 90 some odd cents a gallon delivered. Currently in my area LP is $1.59 a gallon and #2 fuel oil is $2.21. delivered. Just called this afternoon.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Dec. 28, 2018 10:15 am

Curious as to what makes you say a tankless unit uses that same amount of fuel as a typical tank style unit.
I should have said that the real world gas savings are often less than advertised, and are normally offset by the increased cost of the unit, and the installation. With cheap NG, many people never recover the increased cost of the equipment with gas savings. If your existing gas piping is not large enough to support the demand of the tankless unit, the costs go up quick.

Do you know the hardness of your water supply? Many of the tankless units will not honor the warranty if the water hardness is over a certain level, and you don't have a softener.
Currently in my area LP is $1.59 a gallon and #2 fuel oil is $2.21. delivered. Just called this afternoon.
With those prices, fuel oil is still slightly more competitive, but I agree with you that the savings comes at the expense of a
chimney flue, and the space required for the tank.


 
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BlackBetty06
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Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Fri. Dec. 28, 2018 6:34 pm

What I guess I should really do is figure out what the warranties are on both styles of water heater. I have always installed and prefer Rheem when possible. A tank style power vent

40 gallon 1150.00
50 gallon 1200.00

Tankless
199,000 btu/hr unit 1350.00

I installed 1" gas lines when I ran them in my house so I should be good for over 500,000 btu/hr capacity. (Furnace draws 60K, dryer is 28K, garage heater is 10K, BBQ grill is 40K so not worried there although its a great point!

Surprisingly the tankless isnt much more the snag is when the unit goes out of warranty and all the electronics start having issues. Much simpler design on a tank style at a cost of about 12% on fuel usage.

Really kinda itching to free up space and try the 50-93 on a smaller flue chimney and cranking up the fireplace again. Also have a hard time getting rid of a working piece of equipment even though its 21 years old. Decisions........... Appreciate the input so far

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Fri. Dec. 28, 2018 6:36 pm

I should say 12% on fuel EFFICIENCY not usage

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Sun. Dec. 30, 2018 6:27 pm

Well before I opened my big mouth, I shouldnt have assumed how Bradford White codes their dates in their water heater serial numbers. Turns out my water heater is from 2008. The 98 in the serial number doesnt mean the date. The date is coded in with a series of letters that correspond to a chart to decode manufacture date. So....... no sense in getting a new one unless I can sell it for decent money and replace with a gas job. Did a bit of research during all of this and found that Rheem has moved production to mexico. Bradford White is headquartered in Ambler, PA and made in Michigan. Thats a game changer for me as far as brands are concerned. :clap:

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