Cogeneration

 
coalnewbie
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Feb. 14, 2018 7:40 pm

So, how about a 10kw diesel genny and capturing the heat as well. One experimenter constructed a 48V DC Combined Heat & Power unit. The engine was a Yanmar 2TNV70. The generator was a 24 pole Permanent Magnet. Generator Output was 8 KW. (54Vdc 150 Amps) Heat Output was 42,000 BTU/hr making for 74% system efficiency with 160deg F input water.

Is this not more sensible than say solar in the NE? Any ideas anybody?


 
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Post by McGiever » Wed. Feb. 14, 2018 9:08 pm

What are they going to do w/ 150 AMPS @ 54VDC? Most everywhere that is useless.

 
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Post by franco b » Wed. Feb. 14, 2018 11:55 pm

What do you do with the heat output when not needed? Unneeded electric as well?
Running 24/7 all year is expecting a lot.

 
coalnewbie
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Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 7:26 am

You are missing the point, waay better than solar. This guy gets it


 
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Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:16 am

If you heat 8-12 months a year then perhaps.


 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:31 am

Coalnewbie..

How much is the fuel input to the generator?

Without this you can't calculate efficiency.


BigBarney

 
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Post by grumpy » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:40 am

I would guess about 1/2 gallon per hour at 50% load, but that would be for 120/240..


 
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Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 1:23 pm

My guess is about 6 galls in 24 hours.

https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Kohler-D ... page=Y6875

So this is an alternative to heat pumps and free electricity thrown in. I am still looking at it. Major players are now making gas driven cogenerators (Honda, Mitsubishi and others) and charging BIG money and only three people on the planet know how to fix it.

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Feb. 15, 2018 9:18 pm

When you are getting and using the waste heat does it matter how efficient it is?

Less efficient is just more heat.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 3:07 am

MG, again you are missing the point.

If you heat 8-12 months of the year (a prequalifier) that XS heat goes now to warm the building. Infiltration/exfiltration air needs a heat exchanger. Yes, like a modern supersealed house. Yes, it's a product for the NE or similar. The bottom line is that you take HO/diesel whatever and extract 75% of the energy as electric and heat.

Getting the electricity is the trick, heat is easy thx to coal. As we are a coal board I will leave it at that. Electric power for now is either Seeback generators (Peltier effect) useless as it does not scale and remains horribly inefficient. Nor does Stirling engines, we waited a 100 years for that one. Steam losses 30% minimum and is for the big boys only. Now the modern diesel engine can now do this for you.

I have decided It needs to run intermittently with battery storage with good inverters. I am ordering stuff right now. I just thought I would share my thoughts. I was searching for constructive thoughts - oh well. Videos next winter.This guy is starting to get it...



Very clever man. 32 pole alternators that are 90% efficient and are around now thx to the wind industry. Look at the numbers again.

 
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 6:36 am

Do these systems transfer exhaust heat and engine cooling system heat into a home?

 
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Post by Olllotj » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 6:55 am

Awesome system , I would fear the maintenance of a constantly running ice though.

 
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Post by BunkerdCaddis » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 7:22 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Wed. Feb. 14, 2018 7:40 pm
Is this not more sensible than say solar in the NE? Any ideas anybody?
Had this concept floating around in my brain a couple years ago, sort of a "what if you... " :annoyed: A carefully planned system using thermal storage/battery storage could be a very attractive way to go. Maybe consider using coal gas? Methane as fuel maybe?

And then just yesterday, talking w/ my boss (he was a Municipal Govt consultant in a previous life) They had gotten a call (number of years ago), guy refused to pay his sewer bill because he no longer used the sewer system. Lo and behold the guy had a full on methane digester in his basement :o :ugeek:

 
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Post by BunkerdCaddis » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 7:36 am

scalabro wrote:
Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 6:36 am
Do these systems transfer exhaust heat and engine cooling system heat into a home?
As I would see it this is the primary function, converting the fuel to heat and effectively utilizing it. Electricity is the secondary function. Of course closely matching both to demand would be the goal.

 
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Post by David... » Fri. Feb. 16, 2018 8:58 am

Someone made a heatpump with a compressor driven by a NG or propane engine. The engine maintenance was only once per year. Waste heat was recovered to help heat the house. The system cycled on demand for heat. This was not home made, but I don't think it was in production long.

David


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