What Does the Average US Home Use as Heating Fuel?

I have found a new source of energy. Today was a cloudy day, one of about a hundred between now and the first say of spring. All I have to do is put up 15 state of the art solar panels and all 15 panels combined will put out about 200W. That will allow me to light up two bulbs and look for my coal pile. hahahahahhahahaa, you can't invent this stuff. Stupid is as stupid does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s04maNttNE

Pacowy wrote: ↑

Sun. Oct. 16, 2016 10:58 am

Not sure about NG falling; prices have been declining due to fracking.
I think kerosene is measurable, and bigger than wood. A lot of info at EIA.
Mike

Nat gas price falling to the Gas company but,not to the consumer, they seem to make it up somewhere else. One of my gas bills for a rental was $75 out of which only $15 was for the actual gas used. Rest was a laundry list of other charges. This is the main reason im not a gas customer right now,i had it ,took it out.

k-2 wrote: ↑

Tue. Nov. 07, 2017 10:39 pm

Nat gas price falling to the Gas company but,not to the consumer, they seem to make it up somewhere else. One of my gas bills for a rental was $75 out of which only $15 was for the actual gas used. Rest was a laundry list of other charges. This is the main reason im not a gas customer right now,i had it ,took it out.

What makes you believe that the "other charges" becoming a larger proportion of the bill means anything other than NG has gotten cheaper and the savings have basically been passed through to consumers? If the price of NG quadrupled, you'd be paying $120 instead of $75; would it really make you feel better that the "other charges" dropped from 80% to 50%? Even if NG were free, a network business like your local gas distribution company has to cover a lot of costs to build, maintain and operate the system and most states have public utility commissions that at least attempt to make sure the portions of rates that cover those costs are legitimate. In PA and other states, people have experienced enough actual reductions in the overall cost of NG service that many have elected to deactivate and even sell their coal equipment. So I'm having trouble following how the changes in the NG market/pricing would cause anybody to remove their NG service. Can you please clarify that?

Mike

i have natural gas at my home. it costs me $35-$40 to do nothing more then heat hot water and use the kitchen stove. looking at the bill there is never a simple per unit price. we have delivery charge 1, 2nd delivery charge, weather adjustment fee, taxes, and other fees. with my coal delivery i have per ton price and a delivery charge (which a truck actually shows up and drops off the load on a tarp, go figure.... an actual physical delivery). i believe that natural gas companies do have some overhead, but all of it is absurd. the pipes that run to my home are likely quite old and were installed generations ago, do i get a reduction in my bill because a larger portion of that infrastructure is paid off? NOPE. they charge you more in the dead of winter and then they pump air into the system to maintain pressure. i have a friend of mine that is an electrician, he installs backup generators. he has two types of automatic generators, propane and natural gas. if a customer installs a natural gas generator they must buy a larger wattage rated unit then if it were propane. natural gas is actually not that great of a fuel, but its convenient.

then there is the issue of the heating appliance itself. a stoker unit like my keystoker is an extremely reliable, durable heating appliance. a modern high efficiency gas furnace is a complex piece of equipment with a limited service life and they tend to need more repairs. a repair to a stoker stove is usually replacing a blower motor or stoker motor. these parts are cheap in comparison to a modern gas furnace. there are no complex computer boards to replace. there are no multiple stage motors. the motors used in a stoker stove are generally shaded pole and they are cheap to replace. i bought my good running used keystoker for $800 3 years ago, it still has many years of service. i would not want a used $800 high efficiency furnace.

buy a gas furnace that is not high efficiency (if you can even buy them), expect much higher heating bills.

the cost to heat my home per year $700 or so, in an old inefficient drafty farm house living in western ny where the temperatures often get miserable. i cant complain. the lowest cost heat on earth, and besides its just great heat too. wife even likes it.

Pacowy wrote: ↑

Wed. Nov. 08, 2017 9:03 am

. So I'm having trouble following how the changes in the NG market/pricing would cause anybody to remove their NG service. Can you please clarify that?

Mike

Your right about the cost of gas to the gas company ,i think its the lowest its ever been.
I think whats going on here is back in the 90s the cost of the gas was 75% or more of the bill . The gas companies have figured out a way to send you a larger bill even when you use next to no gas at all.(like in spring summer and fall) Now the gas cost is a much smaller portion of the bill so the low prices dont help the consumer as much.Were seeing charges that didnt exist before and increases in standard charges, meter charge ect. Anyone who is OK with paying $75 for $15 worth of gas ,fine with me. Even though i know Nt gas to the gas company is the lowest price its ever been ,but not to the lowest bill for me. Every company is different ,so i can only comment on our local UGI. When i got rid of my gas heat oil was half the price i was paying for gas. When oil went up i went to coal. Gas or Propane would be my last choice for heat right now on the basis of price. Not the price to the gas CO ,but the price to the consumer. But for convenience gas or electric is probably the best choice, always was.

Pacowy wrote: ↑

Wed. Nov. 08, 2017 9:03 am

. In PA and other states, people have experienced enough actual reductions in the overall cost of NG service that many have elected to deactivate and even sell their coal equipment.
Mike

I would think anyone selling their coal equipment to change to gas,is doing it more for convenience than price. Theres no way i could heat this huge house to 77 degrees all winter for $600 a year with gas. Been there,done that. Iv had 3 types of heat in this place in the last 30 years. Gas first ,then oil ,now coal. Gas was the highest cost by far. Still have the oil installed for backup if i want to go on vacation in winter. And with the oil,(which i havent used in 16 yrs) im not paying $20 a month meter rent.

It depends upon where you live. Here in Ohio natural gas heat costs less than coal heat. If there was natural gas on my street, I would not be burning coal.

Thanks Larry. I didn't think there was much dispute about the proposition that many people burn coal to save $, and that the reduction in NG prices actually paid by consumers has put significant economic pressure on coal use. NG has always had convenience; it's the reduction/loss of the price advantage that has hurt coal.

k-2 I'm having trouble following you on this. On the one hand you say you started w/NG 30 years ago, and elsewhere I believe you said you've been on coal for over 20 years. You also said earlier in this thread that you got rid of gas at least in part because of the fees being high relative to the cost of the gas, but the "nat gas price falling" that produced that situation AFAIK has happened almost entirely within the last 10 years. Please clarify.

Mike

I'm not sure if it works the same way for NG, but for electricity my ancillary charges (distribution, etc...) come to more than the raw cost of the electricity.

Yes, certainly very similar. Plus, reduced NG prices in some instances have pushed coal-fired powerplants down the dispatch curve and into mothballs or retirement, reducing the costs of the power itself, and raising the portion of consumer electric bills accounted for by ancillary costs/fees. Sounds a lot like the anthracite discussion.

Mike

I just checked, and the cost of NG here ranges from roughly $7 per 1,000 Cu-Ft in the winter to roughly $24 per 1,000 Cu-Ft in the summer. I had no idea that they charge based on a scale that depends upon their constituencies nominal monthly usage.

Despite this, if only home heating is looked at, it appears that I could heat our house for about $350 less per year on NG vs. anthracite. This picture would change appreciably in favor of coal if I had the means to take in a full T/L delivery.

Pacowy wrote: ↑

Wed. Nov. 08, 2017 1:35 pm

k-2 I'm having trouble following you on this. On the one hand you say you started w/NG 30 years ago, and elsewhere I believe you said you've been on coal for over 20 years. You also said earlier in this thread that you got rid of gas at least in part because of the fees being high relative to the cost of the gas, but the "nat gas price falling" that produced that situation AFAIK has happened almost entirely within the last 10 years. Please clarify.
Mike

I had the gas in 1988 when i moved here ,changed to oil in the 90s as it was half the price. Then when oil started going through the roof in 2002 i changed to coal. About 15 -16 years on coal. I do like Gas Heat ,its almost no maintenance,i install gas in houses i rehab, and rent/sell i prefer it to oil in rentals which involves more maintenance and with its price fluctuations, and tendency of tenants to run out of oil. It seems to me lately as the price of NG fell,the gas companies have managed to increase their charges resulting in not much benefit to the consumer. At least around here.

lsayre wrote: ↑

Wed. Nov. 08, 2017 1:53 pm

I just checked, and the cost of NG here ranges from roughly $7 per 1,000 Cu-Ft in the winter to roughly $24 per 1,000 Cu-Ft in the summer. I had no idea that they charge based on a scale that depends upon their constituencies nominal monthly usage.

Does $7 include the laundry list of other charges or is that just the price of the gas? My gas company would charge me at least $35 for $7 worth of gas. I dont mind paying 2 or 3 times the cost of the gas but 5 times is a little much.

k-2 wrote: ↑

Wed. Nov. 08, 2017 4:48 pm

Does $7 include the laundry list of other charges or is that just the price of the gas? My gas company would charge me at least $35 for $7 worth of gas. I dont mind paying 2 or 3 times the cost of the gas but 5 times is a little much.

Per the EIA.gov website where I got the data, it includes 100% of the distribution costs.

I found some bills from early this year. . The 1/2 double house i have the gas in is very well insulated,i did blown in cellulose while i was rehabbing it.
One bill for 24 days in February is 23CCF to keep the place at 62 Deg. I Used 23CCF. The gas cost $7.80 . Bill is $36
Another bill from 28 days in January i used 46CCF . The gas cost of $15 .62 . Bill is $62.75
So roughly 4X the cost of the gas on both bills.
I know the oil delivery guy marks up the oil he delivers but im sure its not 4x what he pays for it. Same for the coal guy and the propane guy.