Generating Hydrogen Fuel From Sunlight and Water
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Indeed! Just as I had recently implied in a different thread, utilizing Solar to produce hydrogen will make the fuel cell a success.franco b wrote:A very interesting development.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/1508 ... 142940.htm
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
If a good part of the masses do someday manufacture their own fuel cells in their backyards, basements, shops and garages then a whole lot of revenue will go away from those whom have become rather accustom to receiving that revenue.
Think similar to "moonshine"
Think similar to "moonshine"
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Another big problem that fuel cells will need to overcome is that as the technology exists today they contain loads of platinum and/or palladium as the very catalyzers which are required to make them function. Which is why they are so ridiculously expensive! And to boot, there isn't much of these two metals in existence, and Russia has the vast preponderance of the worlds largest reserves of both. Massive stores of platinum and/or palladium would need to be discovered in order for fuel cells to become an affordable everyday item.
The need here is for more economical and readily available materials to be utilized as the electrochemical catalyst agent. Graphine is the hope here. Which brings us back to coal.
The need here is for more economical and readily available materials to be utilized as the electrochemical catalyst agent. Graphine is the hope here. Which brings us back to coal.
It seems in the article they indicated success using a nano-layer of nickle as the catalyst. Much lower cost than the platinum.
Interesting to me since WL Gore is a big employer around here, I think the membrane used is a gortex product.
Interesting to me since WL Gore is a big employer around here, I think the membrane used is a gortex product.
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13767
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
When I was an apprentice, I worked in a place where everything they did was in precious metals. We recieved ingots of platinum stamped CCCP and had the hammer and scycle proudly displayed too. The blocks were about 4"x 4"x2", you could not lift them with both hands off the cart. You had to push the block to the edge of the cart to get under it or it was staying there. That's some heavy stuff.
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Elon Musk has a opinion of Fuel Cells
look at 10:30 min. in:
look at 10:30 min. in:
- franpipeman
- Member
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 4:27 pm
- Location: Wernersville pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: alpine propane condensing boiler radiant floor
I have a honda civic hybrid car 2004 still running. Almost ever since I have had it Honda has had a fuel cell car and a solar powered filling station for it
Always seemed like the perfect solution though since its r&d it was expensive
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/
Always seemed like the perfect solution though since its r&d it was expensive
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Elon Musk's 'Gigafactory 1' battery plant soon to begin production in Sparks, NV may need to retool if this newest sunlight battery takes off.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gigabattery+reno& ... ttery+reno
This new "solar battery" leaves out the inefficiency of a recharge cycle by simply reversing the process back into the water it had originally came from and this part of the cycle needs no sunlight ...recharging any other battery cell up till now has been terribly inefficient.
And the hydrogen (as in H2 fuel cell) itself is difficult to move about as a fuel...but using H2 in this new solar process removes most all the moving about of the fuel issues.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gigabattery+reno& ... ttery+reno
This new "solar battery" leaves out the inefficiency of a recharge cycle by simply reversing the process back into the water it had originally came from and this part of the cycle needs no sunlight ...recharging any other battery cell up till now has been terribly inefficient.
And the hydrogen (as in H2 fuel cell) itself is difficult to move about as a fuel...but using H2 in this new solar process removes most all the moving about of the fuel issues.
- davidmcbeth3
- Member
- Posts: 8505
- Joined: Sun. Jun. 14, 2009 2:31 pm
- Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
at 0.77 lbs/in^3 [about 22 g/cm^3]... 4by4by2=32 cubic inches = about 25 lbs.coaledsweat wrote:When I was an apprentice, I worked in a place where everything they did was in precious metals. We recieved ingots of platinum stamped CCCP and had the hammer and scycle proudly displayed too. The blocks were about 4"x 4"x2", you could not lift them with both hands off the cart. You had to push the block to the edge of the cart to get under it or it was staying there. That's some heavy stuff.
[about 22 times the density of water ~ zonkers]
Not that heavy but given the size not easy to move I would imagine.
The point of using hydrogen as a fuel is a misnomer because on earth there is no free hydrogen
available for use. Hydrogen requires disassociation from another element to then be used (burned)
to produce energy. Hydrogen is only a carrier of energy not a true fuel that can be mined,drilled,or
cut to be used to produce heat for some use. Most of the hydrogen on earth is in the water of the
oceans,but a small amount is in some natural gas,but not a large amount.
These drawbacks limit its use as an "energy carrier". The free sun produced hydrogen could be a
usable form if the costs of the electrolysis systems would be cheap enough, and you lived where
sunshine is plentiful year round . In W NY we only get a few sunny days in January , February, and
March so in these months you get very little production.
BigBarney
available for use. Hydrogen requires disassociation from another element to then be used (burned)
to produce energy. Hydrogen is only a carrier of energy not a true fuel that can be mined,drilled,or
cut to be used to produce heat for some use. Most of the hydrogen on earth is in the water of the
oceans,but a small amount is in some natural gas,but not a large amount.
These drawbacks limit its use as an "energy carrier". The free sun produced hydrogen could be a
usable form if the costs of the electrolysis systems would be cheap enough, and you lived where
sunshine is plentiful year round . In W NY we only get a few sunny days in January , February, and
March so in these months you get very little production.
BigBarney
-
- Member
- Posts: 2270
- Joined: Sun. Sep. 30, 2012 8:20 pm
- Location: Ithaca,NY
I don't see where the new technology is. IT APPEARS THAT THEY ARE USING PHOTOELECTRIC cells for a current to electrolize water . And as mentioned it wont work any better than the current cells do in no light climates. Geothermal ,tidal/wave > electrolysis>hydrogen I can see, maybe. Or perhaps a geosynchronous photovoltayic satellite beaming a laser to a target generation facility on earth. cheap housing opportunities in areas surrounding said target facilities.
- franpipeman
- Member
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 4:27 pm
- Location: Wernersville pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: alpine propane condensing boiler radiant floor
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
The Mirai is Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell car. You can buy one today. It might be tough finding a hydrogen refilling station though. That aside, the remaining days of the gasoline engine are numbered.
https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html
https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html