Which Way Would You Go With a Furnace?

For topics about heating with other types of fuel such as wood burners, gas furnaces, oil burners and geothermal heat pumps.
BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 9:55 am

I want to install some form of wood furnace in my all electric 1700 sq ft house and I'm having a hard time deciding whether to install one in my attached garage, or go with an outside one. I've been thinking of going with the U.S. Stove Hot Blast #1400 in the garage, Orscheln has it on sale for $1080.00. By the time I install a chimney, etc I'm sure I'll have over $2000.00 in it. I'd run several warm air ducts into the house, and run a cold air return. This would help to keep the garage heated just by having the furnace in the garage. Or... Go with an outside wood furnace such as the Clayton 1600 EF. The standard Clayton indoor 1600 appears to be a very good unit, I was thinking of going cheaper since I'll be burning all wood and I have plenty of it. The Clayton EF doesn't appear to be insulated as are some of the other outside wood furnaces, I'd buy it if it was proven to work efficiently as Northern Tool has it shipped for a little over $2600.00. The best outside forced heat furnace that I have seen is made by Shaver. Here is an Ebay link to it.
**Broken Link(s) Removed** It is a new for 2010 model as is the Clayton 1600 EF, but Shaver has been making outside wood to water furnaces since the last ice age, and it seems like they have thought of everything. Installing both 12" dia lines into my basement doesn't sound like a fun job, although I've done worse. I like the idea of having all the mess outside as I use to heat with an insert in a zero clearance fireplace and it was a mess, although the garage wouldn't be too bad. I also like the thought of not having to install a chimney in the house.
You guys on here appear to know your furnaces, what are your thoughts on this? Thanks! Bob


CapeCoaler
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 10:05 am

Towns are enacting bans on outdoor wood boilers/furnaces so beware of that possibility...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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coaledsweat
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 10:24 am

........... and Fire Marshalls aren't big on flames in a garage. The best place for it is in the cellar if it is possible. I seriously doubt you can buy and install an outdoor system for your $ target.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 10:26 am

CapeCoaler wrote:Towns are enacting bans on outdoor wood boilers/furnaces so beware of that possibility...
Thanks, I had heard that. From what I have read the forced air outdoor furnaces may not put out as much smoke as the ones the have a water boiler, due to the box temps being hotter. It makes sense to me but I don't have any experience with either one. Bob

BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 10:28 am

coaledsweat wrote:........... and Fire Marshalls aren't big on flames in a garage. The best place for it is in the cellar if it is possible. I seriously doubt you can buy and install an outdoor system for your $ target.
My garage doesn't have any flammables in it other than my German Shepard, which is why I thought it would work well in my case. You're right, the outdoor ones most likely would end up being a lot more expensive. Thanks! Bob

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coaledsweat
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 11:02 am

Not just more expensive to install, you give up considerable heat loses to a non habitable zone. Saves more money in the long run. ;)
I'm sure the dog wouldn't mind the garage install though. :)
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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steamup
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 1:38 pm

BruteSpeed wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:........... and Fire Marshalls aren't big on flames in a garage. The best place for it is in the cellar if it is possible. I seriously doubt you can buy and install an outdoor system for your $ target.
My garage doesn't have any flammables in it other than my German Shepard, which is why I thought it would work well in my case. You're right, the outdoor ones most likely would end up being a lot more expensive. Thanks! Bob
Doens't matter what you have in your garage. What matters is what the space is classified as from a code prespective and what you are allowed to put in the space. Solid fuel devices by NFPA are prohibited in garages. Many codes and insurance companies reference NFPA.
Steamup

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Cyber36
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 1:40 pm

Which ever one you get & wherever you put it, make sure it's a boiler. Your saving money twice instead of once......


BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 2:18 pm

steamup wrote:
BruteSpeed wrote: My garage doesn't have any flammables in it other than my German Shepard, which is why I thought it would work well in my case. You're right, the outdoor ones most likely would end up being a lot more expensive. Thanks! Bob
Doens't matter what you have in your garage. What matters is what the space is classified as from a code prespective and what you are allowed to put in the space. Solid fuel devices by NFPA are prohibited in garages. Many codes and insurance companies reference NFPA.
Wow, I didn't know that, very good information! Okay, so that rules out the indoor furnace/wood heater for me as I don't want to be dragging wood through the house. I did that twenty some years ago and I don't want to do it again. Now I have to go back and decide which brand of outdoor wood furnace to go with. The Clayton 1600 EF is their new forced air design, which does have the capability to heat the hot water. Anyone have any comments? Thanks! Bob

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Sting
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 2:39 pm

You could build a furnace room in that space now used as a garage -

That can be done to "code"
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!

BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 02, 2010 9:56 pm

Sting wrote:You could build a furnace room in that space now used as a garage -

That can be done to "code"
Good idea, do you know what it entails? I'll assume I would have to lose the garage door. Bob

BruteSpeed
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Post Tue. Nov. 09, 2010 4:22 am

Just to let everyone know, I have ordered a Hopsco V1500 outdoor forced air furnace. http://www.airstove.com/ They're only located about an hour a way from me. Bob

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DOUG
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Post Tue. Nov. 09, 2010 5:53 am

Boy, That is a tough call. As much as I like the Clayton, and by the way Clayton did at one time produce an outdoor unit many years ago before Clayton was purchased by United States Stove Company, I'm concerned about the actual burn times since it is based on the smaller 1600 series furnace. The indoor Clayton works well if installed in the basement. But even so, during the cold weather it does need fed 3 times a day. So, will the outdoor unit provide the same amount of burn time would be my question?

The Hopsco energy is a interesting product also, but once again I'm not sure about it yet.

The Shaver is quite an impressive unit and in my opinion would probably perform better than most. I like the heavy insulation and the larger firebox. I would think that it would provide much longer burn times, but possibly use more wood than the Clayton.

So just from studying your choices, I like the Clayton over the Hopsco. I have nothing against the Hopsco, but much experience burning in a Clayton and love the firebox design. But ultimately the Shaver appears to be a much better outdoor furnace construction and would probably allow a longer interval of loading to possibly just twice a day.

The installation cost of the cement pad and insulated duct runs need to be factored into your decision also. Remember all of these outdoor units won't work without electricity either. So, you may also want to think about back up power too? But then again, that may give you an excuse to get a Chubby for the inside your house too. :idea: ;)

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jeromemsn
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Post Tue. Nov. 09, 2010 7:02 am

Brutespeed, to bad you didn't say if you had a pond or not on your property. One of the best Geothermal manufacturers is located just over in Ft. Wayne Ind. With a 1/3 of an acre of pond at 8 ft. deep you can have an endless supply of heat and cool and all you need is a pump. Thats my next adventure in a couple of years.
The warmest people I know burn Coal! ©

BruteSpeed
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Post Sun. Nov. 28, 2010 8:24 pm

DOUG wrote:Boy, That is a tough call. As much as I like the Clayton, and by the way Clayton did at one time produce an outdoor unit many years ago before Clayton was purchased by United States Stove Company, I'm concerned about the actual burn times since it is based on the smaller 1600 series furnace. The indoor Clayton works well if installed in the basement. But even so, during the cold weather it does need fed 3 times a day. So, will the outdoor unit provide the same amount of burn time would be my question?

The Hopsco energy is a interesting product also, but once again I'm not sure about it yet.

The Shaver is quite an impressive unit and in my opinion would probably perform better than most. I like the heavy insulation and the larger firebox. I would think that it would provide much longer burn times, but possibly use more wood than the Clayton.

So just from studying your choices, I like the Clayton over the Hopsco. I have nothing against the Hopsco, but much experience burning in a Clayton and love the firebox design. But ultimately the Shaver appears to be a much better outdoor furnace construction and would probably allow a longer interval of loading to possibly just twice a day.

The installation cost of the cement pad and insulated duct runs need to be factored into your decision also. Remember all of these outdoor units won't work without electricity either. So, you may also want to think about back up power too? But then again, that may give you an excuse to get a Chubby for the inside your house too. :idea: ;)
Thanks for your input. I picked up the Hopsco V1500 http://www.airstove.com/ and I have it sitting on my snowmobile trailer by the side of the house. I'll be installing it this week and I'll have it on concrete blocks for this season. For the chimney I'm going to use stainless steel 6" dia, Menard's seems to have the best price on it. Hopsco uses a 10" for the inlet and a 10" for the outlet side. I'm thinking of taking out one of my basement windows and using a piece of sheetmetal to bolt over it. I'd then weld several 10" collars into it for the heated air and cold air return. It is harder than I thought it would be to find 10" ductwork than I thought it would be.
Last edited by BruteSpeed on Mon. Nov. 29, 2010 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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