Say Goodbye to the Short Lived Corn Stove Boom...

Post by **Richard S.** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 4:38 am

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID ... /701280343

Corn prices ended last week at $4.05 a bushel at the Chicago Board of Trade. The price has doubled in the last year, largely because ethanol plants are increasing demand.

It's unclear if corn prices will moderate. On one hand, farmers are expected to shift more acreage to corn this year, which could bring prices down. On the other hand, Bush needs as much corn as possible flowing into ethanol, meaning government inducements to ethanol producers are likely to continue.

How would you like to be one of those people that has been burning corn for years only have this thrown in your lap... I read in the newspaper the other day there are hundreds of proposals to build more of these ethanol plants even one locally here.

gambler · Post by **gambler** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 8:20 am

I am one of those people!! I have been burning corn for four years now. That is why I became a new member of this forum. I am thinking about making the switch to coal. Four years ago I was going to go with either coal or corn and unfortunately I chose corn because I thought it would be easier to get (many farms near me). Now only one farmer will sell corn and the others don't want to sell any because the price is so high they don't want to have to buy any to feed their livestock. you have to hate it when government gets involved with anything, it sure goes down hill in a hurry. Anyway I am hear to find out all I can about burning coal. So I am sure I will have a few questions for you experts.

LsFarm · Post by **LsFarm** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 8:29 am

Gambler: welcome to the forum, read as much of the threads as you can then ask what you need.
Give us a post on the introduction thread if you haven't yet, and let us know what you need for heating. The size and layout of your house. available chimneys, insulation etc.

Greg L

BTW: check your PM's

ktm rider · Post by **ktm rider** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 5:17 pm

WHile this does suck for corn stove owners and some farmers it will help out the entire country in the long run. Hopefully ethanol will degrease the strangle hold the middle east has on us. I say we should build all the ethanol refineries we can build. It will make our farmers rich and hopefully put good ol' Hakim out in the street..

Post by **Richard S.** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 5:38 pm

I can agree with decreasing dependence on oil but this is only going to put a dent. I don't have any figures but I'd imagine this would require vast amounts of acreage to make a significant impact, add to that the host of other things it will introduce such as environmental issues, increased cost for other produce (if the farmers are growing corn for fuel they aren't growing food for humans.)

Corn is one of the major parts of the American diet, next time you're eating something look on the label and you'll see what I mean. If it's just a piece of meat you're eating there's a good chance it was fed with corn... This of course is not going to affect just a few farmers or people burning corn for heat but the entire country.

gambler · Post by **gambler** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 5:50 pm

ktm rider, I have been following the ethanol thing because I am watching the price of corn and this ethanol is a bad deal. It takes almost as much fossil fuel to make the same amount of ethanol from corn. And you are right, someone will get rich but it will not be the farmers. most of these ethanol plants are owned by outside investers from other countries. The ethanol is not cost effective when it is made from corn. It will cost as much if not more than gasoline and the miles per gallons of your car will drop. That is just the fuel side of it. All farmers are going to plant corn and the price of all other crops will increase. All of the food at the grocery store is going to go up in price for everything from meats, bread, veggies and even eggs. Also the cost of clothing will go up because cotton will be in short supply. If the united states planted every piece of land in corn we would only make up about 8% of the fuel that the U.S. uses. So you can see that when the government gets involved in something (They are subsidizing these ethanol plants) everything turns to crap in a hurry. Sorry for the long post but if you do a little research into the ethanol you will see that it is a bad deal.

Berlin · Post by **Berlin** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 6:30 pm

bio diesel made from algae ponds enriched with co2 from a nearby coal powerplant is a very promising way to make fuel. It has the capibility to replace much of the us's diesel use. there are promising pilot projects underway.

ktm rider · Post by **ktm rider** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 6:56 pm

I haven't researched the ethanol thing very much, I just think I could be promising. Brazil does it with sugar cane and I don't see how they can make it work and we can not.
I saw that documentary about fuel from algae ponds and I agree, it looks VERY promising and the bi products of it can be sold and even put back into the system..
I hoope we can do something. I know I am tired of financing terrorism.

LsFarm · Post by **LsFarm** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 7:09 pm

I'm all for the bio-diesel and for coal-gasification, we definitely need to get away from sending all our money to the middle east.

Greg L

gambler · Post by **gambler** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 7:19 pm

Brazil does it with sugar cane and I don't see how they can make it work and we can not.

when you make ethanol from suger cane you get a return of about 10 gal for every gallon of fossil fuel used but if you make ethanol from corn you get about 1.2 gallon of ethanol from every gallon of fossil fuel used.

Do you guys remember the sugar embargo of the 1970's. It is still on the books so Brazil can not ship ethanol to the US. We could import ethanol from Brazil cheaper than we can make it.

Post by **coaledsweat** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 8:22 pm

A car that runs on ethanol burns about double the fuel that a gasoline car would consume. The air fuel ratio for alcohol is half that of gasoline.

REDMAN · Post by **REDMAN** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 8:37 pm

ktm rider wrote:WHile this does suck for corn stove owners and some farmers it will help out the entire country in the long run. Hopefully ethanol will degrease the strangle hold the middle east has on us. I say we should build all the ethanol refineries we can build. It will make our farmers rich and hopefully put good ol' Hakim out in the street..

This may be a little off topic, but it may surprise some people.
The top five countries the U.S. imports crude from are as follows:

1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Venezuela
5. Nigeria

Just some food for thought.

TGMC · Post by **TGMC** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 9:11 pm

while you guys are on the subject , Imake my own diesel fuel at home. Just some used veggie oil and some simple ingriedients and presto DIESEL to burn in my truck. and no my truck was not converted to run veggie oil.

good luck
pittston val

tewplanman · Post by **tewplanman** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 9:32 pm

Hello to all:

Im a trader with a weekend home in PA, looks like the bulls are back in the oil patch. I wonder how long until the price of coal goes the way of coal. One of the reasons I bought a hand fed unit, flexibility. Anyone here know of any good clean coal technology out there. In the meantime im planning on burning coal and going long natural gas and oil

This years playh go long China and oil, use the profit to burn coal.

REDMAN · Post by **REDMAN** » Tue. Jan. 30, 2007 10:23 pm

TGMC wrote:while you guys are on the subject , Imake my own diesel fuel at home. Just some used veggie oil and some simple ingriedients and presto DIESEL to burn in my truck. and no my truck was not converted to run veggie oil.

good luck
pittston val

Val, I take it that you make your own bio-diesel. How much equipment does that process take and how much room is needed. Also do you collect the oil from local resteraunts for free or are they starting to catch on.