Is on Demand Hot Water for Showering an Energy Saver?

traderfjp · Post by **traderfjp** » Fri. Jun. 12, 2009 10:54 pm

ANyone using instant hot water for showering? If so I would be interested in knowing does your unit use electricity or propane. What are your costs and does it work as advertised. Is it really limitless??

Dann757 · Post by **Dann757** » Fri. Jun. 12, 2009 11:16 pm

I have a small Paloma natural gas unit. In my small place it takes up very little room. I use one thing at a time, unlimited hot water for dishes or shower. It fills the tub for a bath no problem. Push button temperature control. It has been great. It only consumes gas when it's on, definitely saves money. It likes to be on or off, it requires a minimum flow to kick on.

ceccil · Post by **ceccil** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 12:24 am

Trader, do some research before you buy if you are planning to buy one. With these instant or on demand water heaters you really get what you pay for. If you intend on getting one for the whole house and will be using more than one appliance at a time, it will cost a pretty penny. I have a friend that has installed these. Some customers purchased the cheapest one they can find and called him to install it. Shortly after the install they called and complained that the water wasn't as hot as before the install. He had to explain to them that he was not responsible for the performance of the HW heater as it was not one that he recommends. Long story short, he will not install units that he himself does not carry. Don't get me wrong, if you purchace a good one, you should be very happy with it. Good luck.

Jeff

009to090 · Post by **009to090** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 9:27 am

I checked these out, about 3 or 4 years ago when our electric HWH went on the fritz. I would have had to install one under each appliance, to get "Unlimited" hot water. They will produce unlimited hot water, as long as you don't run the hot water too fast, or run more than one appliance at a time.
I decided to get the super-efficient Rheem Marathon electric HWH, 105 gals. It has a lifetime warrentee, is made of fiberglass, and has 4 inches of insulation spray-filled between the inner and outer shell.
I've never regretted that decision.
Pictures of it are here.... Electric Tankless Water Heaters

traderfjp · Post by **traderfjp** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 10:14 am

I have an oil fired hot water heater and it has spoiled us. We had coils in our boiler when we fist moved in and it was not a good setup. Our current setup is practically limitless. An electric tank might be the way to go.

George-NJ · Post by **George-NJ** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 1:55 pm

I bought a new electric tankless w/h made by Titan in Florida. I got it new off ebay for around $130. I've been uising it for a year or so. It claimed to be good for a 3 bedroom, 2 bath home. We've been very happy with it.

Every sink & shower has airator/ restrictor anyway so we never had a problem with not enough hot water or runned out. The only time I notice a drop in temprature is when I fill the 2 person jacuzzi tub, no airator. I don't keep the unit as hot as it can get anyway, it will almost make steam. When I first installed it I set it 's dial set it high, man that water was way too hot, so I dialed it down. If you have a newer home with self tempering valves you can leave it up higher, not in my case with the older style valves.

I would buy it again in a heart beat. I saved so much money by not having to keep the oil burner running just for the hot water.

** This unit required a 60 amp #6 line & breaker, draws alot of power to do it's job, but only when called for. My wife said she didn't notice any large increase in our electric bill after I installed it.

traderfjp · Post by **traderfjp** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 3:22 pm

It seems like these instant hot water systems work. I have two women in the house who both like very hot showers. If they aren't happy I'll be ripping the system out in a heart beat. The annoying drones of their complaints is strong medicine. (: It seems like a super store tank is a great alternative too. I can't imagine that is a night and day difference in costs. If I can get an electric heater and use coal for my main heating I would only need a little oil to heat my basement. I want to totally get off oil if possible.

ceccil · Post by **ceccil** » Sat. Jun. 13, 2009 9:08 pm

traderfjp wrote:I want to totally get off oil if possible.

It looks as though your heading in the right direction Trader.

Jeff

mikeandgerry · Post by **mikeandgerry** » Fri. Oct. 16, 2009 10:30 pm

Dann757 wrote:It only consumes gas when it's on, definitely saves money.

Just curious...exactly how much have you saved?

coalkirk · Post by **coalkirk** » Tue. Oct. 20, 2009 7:28 am

The only savings is from standby loss which I don't believe is significant enough to justify their cost.

steamup · Post by **steamup** » Mon. Oct. 26, 2009 7:01 pm

I've installed two Navien units on different jobs. They are a 98 percent efficient unit, propane or natural gas fired. One heck of a unit but a little pricey. Vent with PVC. Attached is a picture with one used for hot water plus radiant heat for a small house.

.JPG | 70KB | Navien installed with radiant.JPG

BIG BEAM · Post by **BIG BEAM** » Fri. Nov. 13, 2009 11:22 pm

coalkirk wrote:The only savings is from standby loss which I don't believe is significant enough to justify their cost.

You are correct.With the new electric water heaters the insul is very good.If you use an electric water heater on a night rate (I pay .06 per kilowatt at night) and make your hot water at night you will save a lot more than a insta type water heater.The instant water heaters make hot water when you use it during the day.I would be paying .16 per kilowatt during the day.Make sure you know what you system is in the house now,if you're on a night rate and make your hot water at night the instant water will cost you more in electric.
DON

With gas it's a different story.The instant hot water is much better.The standby loss in a tank type gas water heater is HUGE

Sting · Post by **Sting** » Fri. Nov. 13, 2009 11:40 pm

The standby loss in a 40 gal NG atmospheric vented DHW heater set at code temperature of 120 degrees is 4 to 5 therms --- A MONTH

This season I am paying less than a dollar a Therm

I got this data before closed combustion became the norm -- and I expect that has reduced the standby loss to 3 to 4 therms of energy a month.

So not so "huge"

Case in point -- you buy the new appliance form Sears for 350.00 bucks - over a 5 years it uses 30 to 40 bucks of energy just sitting around - so total cost of having 40 gallons of hot water ready for instant use for 5 years === less than 600 bucks

What did the instant heater cost and do you think it will last longer than 5 years and deliver the same GPM?

Do you believe it can operated cheaper per gallon of heated liquid?

If you live alone -- I suppose

WNY · Post by **WNY** » Sat. Nov. 14, 2009 8:24 am

I tried on of the smaller units, Electric, you have to run like 4-6AWG cable (Quite large) to the unit, it's like 4500 watts, but it developed a leak and I sent it back and put in a standard electric hot water tank with a timer box, runs only 4 hours a day (3hrs in the morning, 1 in the afternoon). Only runs about $25-30/month on the electric bill. I don't have any easy way to vent a gas one.

europachris · Post by **europachris** » Sat. Nov. 14, 2009 9:33 am

steamup wrote:I've installed two Navien units on different jobs. They are a 98 percent efficient unit, propane or natural gas fired. One heck of a unit but a little pricey. Vent with PVC. Attached is a picture with one used for hot water plus radiant heat for a small house.

Navien installed with radiant.JPG

That looks just like every Dutch house or apartment I've been in. Either underfloor radiant in the newer homes or those really nice slim panel radiators on the walls. The boilers sometimes are even installed in the attic, but can be anywhere (kitchen, bathroom, etc.). Nice.

Chris