why-most-pv-solar-systems-will-include-batteries

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 8922
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Apr. 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Take what you want and leave the rest.
CHEERS
cheers2.gif
.GIF | 2.8KB | cheers2.gif
http://www.outbackpower.com/blog/item/9-why-most- ... -batteries

Advertise on Coalpail.com

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 19382
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Sat. Apr. 27, 2019 5:36 am

The days of forcing utilities to accept ones daytime only (with a daily peak at solar noon) generated electricity from PV will by necessity become a thing of the past.

 
User avatar
CoalisCoolxWarm
Member
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Western PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sat. Apr. 27, 2019 8:52 am

Don't forget the commercial demand premium rate for high amp usage on the smart meters.

Use a welder for a extended period, pay higher rate.

Garages on individual supplies in PA are 'commercial' rates.

Just another way to fleece the little guy.

...in case you missed the tie in, batteries can be used to reduced these surge demands and could lead to lower overall RATE, not just kwh used.

THAT could be a real incentive for commercial users (or people with garages)

 
User avatar
Ky Speedracer
Member
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun. Dec. 21, 2014 9:38 pm
Location: Middletown, Kentucky
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Florence HotBlast NO.68 & Potbelly
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HotBlast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Ky Lump & Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil

Post by Ky Speedracer » Sat. Apr. 27, 2019 5:17 pm

KY is still $ for $ until 2020.
If you have a system installed before 2020, you are grandfathered in for 20 years.
The power companies arguments about cost of infrastructure are BS! Not to mention the BS arguments about having to run different generators... they can totally forecast demand for power based on consumption.
Duke Energy bought LG&E here in our area about 15 years ago and it’s been all about rate increases ever since.
I love capitalism! But, what they have here in our area is a monopoly! No competition whatsoever! Now that the consumer has a little leverage/option, the greedy bastards are crying “foul”!
If you can’t tell, I’m not a fan...

 
ricardode
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat. Dec. 21, 2019 11:01 am

Post by ricardode » Sat. Dec. 21, 2019 11:02 am

As with the self-consumption case, adding a battery to the system allows the owner to store surplus solar generation during the off-peak hours and use it during the peak hours when it costs twice as much to buy electricity from the grid. In this case, the focus is on not using grid power in the evening.

 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 13544
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Sat. Dec. 21, 2019 3:41 pm

Ky Speedracer wrote:
Sat. Apr. 27, 2019 5:17 pm
KY is still $ for $ until 2020.
If they can buy or make power for far less why should they be giving them full retail? The price the utility pays for this power should be capped at the wholesale cost and anything over about 5% of their average monthly usage should not be credited. If you want to be in the business of supplying power go into business.

The power companies arguments about cost of infrastructure are BS!


They most certainly are not BS, wire, transformers, poles and everything else has a cost. . Here in PA you can choose to buy power from multiple companies, the distributor is not necessarily your power supplier. The cost of distribution/transmission is itemized on your bill and it's about 3 cents per kWh.

Someone with solar array that is putting 100 kWh into the grid and then taking it out later is utilizing that infrastructure more than the guy next door that is just taking 100kWh. If the person utilizing the solar panels is not paying the costs of distribution/transmission it falls onto the other rate payers. Look at this way, if everyone was utilizing solar system with net flow of power to their house of 0 kWh who is paying for the infrastructure or the power plants backing these systems up?

Furthermore those plants have a cost whether they are making power or not. They more they are idled by solar and wind the more expensive the electricity gets they produce because your capital investment to build them is not being fully utilized.
Not to mention the BS arguments about having to run different generators... they can totally forecast demand for power based on consumption.
Running a grid has been analogized as walking a tight rope. Throwing a whole bunch of small unmonitored systems into the mix increases the difficulty substantially. Think of bunch of puffy white clouds moving across the sky for the afternoon and then you have consumers in these households turning on and off devices.

 
User avatar
CoalisCoolxWarm
Member
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Western PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sat. Dec. 21, 2019 6:29 pm

...and then you have a fire break out and some judge pronounces a $200 Billion judgment on your company....

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 8922
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sat. Dec. 21, 2019 7:24 pm

Then a Alberta Clipper comes through and tight rope gets ice covered and people everywhere plug in electric space heaters so solar and wind doesn't take all the blame for the tight rope balance.

Advertise on Coalpail.com

 
User avatar
franpipeman
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 4:27 pm
Location: Wernersville pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: alpine propane condensing boiler radiant floor

Post by franpipeman » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 9:52 am

A great explanation of PG and E dilemma and fires caused by the grid



Also having some Experience in solar production ,the credit for the solar system I help build , does give a credit once a year but it is very low, it is the lowest average whole price that the utility buys power for , so its very low no where near retail price.

 
User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 13544
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Location: NEPA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Post by Richard S. » Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 6:45 pm

franpipeman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 9:52 am
A great explanation of PG and E dilemma and fires caused by the grid
Utilities can't order a pizza without government approval. Profit margins for that company are set by the state, somewhere around 10% which inline with other public utilities across the country. With some of the highest electric rates in the country there is no reason they shouldn't have some of the best infrastructure.

There is many reason why they don't. It's difficult if not impossible to build a power generating facility in CA, in fact they are trying to close existing natural gas ones. To make up for this shortfall they import a lot of power from other states and that is expensive. On top of that you have the expense for mandated renewable energy.

Going back to the pizza and this would just be speculation on my part.... Government regulators turned a blind eye to the infrastructure issues to keep already ridiculously high prices from going through the stratosphere.
it is the lowest average whole price that the utility buys power for , so its very low no where near retail price.
This depends on the state law.

 
User avatar
KLook
Member
Posts: 5023
Joined: Sun. Feb. 17, 2008 1:08 pm
Location: Harrison, Tenn
Other Heating: Wishing it was cold enough for coal here....not really

Post by KLook » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 8:37 am

And yet, how much discussion is there at the gov. and media level about the problem? All you hear is gotta go green, damn the costs. But 85 people died in one fire because of this single minded stupidity. What better way to stimulate jobs then high wage and skilled men(and women) being hired and trained to actually maintain what we already have? What I got from the piece is it is typical politics that are the root cause of this.

Kevin

 
User avatar
franpipeman
Member
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri. Jan. 11, 2008 4:27 pm
Location: Wernersville pa
Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: alpine propane condensing boiler radiant floor

Post by franpipeman » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 8:57 am

I think we tend to also skimp on infrastructure maintenance and growth.No one like increases in expenditures. In my area after deregulation , the distributing utilities did very little tree clearing and maintenance of the grid. Then we started having long term outages after storms that are getting worse. Then investigations where begun about why the maintenance drop and then the Distribution Utilites got a rate increase and zoning of the grid happened , trees where trimmed and new high tension lines where installed ( Central Pennsylvania). I believe our problems are complex and to ignore renewable energy is a foolish as thinking we can throw a switch and turn off fossil fuels and bring on 100 percent renewables .Its my understanding that distributing Electricity and producing electricity are two completely different entities.

 
User avatar
CoalisCoolxWarm
Member
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
Location: Western PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 9:01 am

Selling carbon credits, Solar Subsidies, First year write-off of leases, 5-years for resale to become Long Term Capital Gains, all while collecting big salaries.

The "clean energy business" can be quite the profit maker if (exploited) properly.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 8922
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Dec. 23, 2019 11:34 am

yep, two different busnesses, generation has to compete in the big market and distribution has to maintain their territory/grid.

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6186
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Jan. 11, 2020 4:38 pm

franpipeman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 22, 2019 9:52 am
A great explanation of PG and E dilemma and fires caused by the grid



Also having some Experience in solar production ,the credit for the solar system I help build , does give a credit once a year but it is very low, it is the lowest average whole price that the utility buys power for , so its very low no where near retail price.
This guy did great reporting on the dam issue also...
Plus he has a very cool older plane...

Advertise on Coalpail.com

Post Reply

Return to “Wood, Pellets, Gas, Oil, Geothermal & Other Heating Types”